Discussion:
Cathars in France - How religions made history, and atheists made mass graves
(too old to reply)
fasgnadh
2009-04-21 19:42:07 UTC
Permalink
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the 1300s
and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA

I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
Europe was hungry
for fresh air after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)

The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in contrast to the latest
Divine Revelation which was launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.

Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith and a renewed new
revelation, because ALL of history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!

Thanks for pointing that out!

"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D

And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era, the choice, if you
want civilisation, is still which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D

The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the 20th
Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical world was said to
be completely un-xian but torturing and burning anyone who believed such
was entirely xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared to the 40,000,000
killed by atheists in the 'modern'(sic) era???

It's measured in the THOUSANDS!

What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN Christianity
for Dark Deeds in the Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o

And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and of each
other') when I say simply 'atheism is historically a Tyranny, in EVERY
case of atheist regimes, and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'

Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern Church responsible
for ancient misdeeds, dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from insignificance in
history, to 20th century mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force in the history of
developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just


The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration and
sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)

There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]

Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;

Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.

Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world
view.

William Turner the "father of English botany"

John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.

Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic
solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most
famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,

Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer, even when
persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years the Church apologised! B^D

René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.

Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).

Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology

Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.

John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.


Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine

Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.

Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society

Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.

Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.

Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,

Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician

Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday

Charles Babbage

Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"

Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.

Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.


Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal
Medal,

Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials

Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry

John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.

Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics

Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the
Milne model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the
Royal Astronomical Society,

Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.

Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest

Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science

von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.

Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.

Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.

John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.

Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.

Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize

Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research
Institute.

John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.

Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.

Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.

Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.


And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D

Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!


What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness
and the church was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]

Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;


I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.

- Galileo Galilei 1615.

..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954

The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it

- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher

The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven

- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642

I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world

- Louis Pasteur 1822-95

As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.

- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727

The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.

- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The church still plays that role
today condemning millions in Africa to die for a doctrine by its
teachings on contraception and condoms.
It's mistakes in no way match the deliberate slaughter by
historical atheism, killing over 40,000,000 people
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 – June
20, 1966)
a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics
and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven, proposed the Big Bang
theory of the origin of the Universe"

The modern understanding of the origin of the universe, from a modern
rational Theist! B^]

Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it inflicted five
brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised and murdered tens of
millions, before being re-assigned to the dustbin of history!

And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA

Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
--
# Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
# -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
# fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
#
# From: fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups:
# alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
# alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
# Message-ID: <8QNtl.26734$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:07:32 GMT
#
# American Religious Identification Survey, Summary Report March 2009:
#
# "Self-identification of U.S. Adult Population by Religious Tradition
#
# 2001 2008
#
# Non- religious 29,481,000 (14.1%) 34,169,000 (15%)
#
# Agnostics 991,000 (0.5%) 1,985,000 (0.9%)
#
# Atheists 902,000 (0.4%) 1,621,000 (0.7%)
#
#
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
#
#
# 0.7% of Americans!! B^D 2.3% worldwide!!! B^D
#
# 'NON-RELIGIOUS' DOES NOT = ATHEIST, YOU DISHONEST CRETINS!
#
#
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS BEAT YOU!!! **AND** they grew FASTER!!!! B^D
fasgnadh
2009-04-21 20:04:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
There are lots of situations even today in which Moslems are
slaughtering non-Moslems wholesale, and between Xtain and Moslem
morality there is not a ha'panny's difference.
Leto Atreides
2009-04-21 20:48:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
OK, today, Christian people kill a lot of people in Africa because they
forbid the preservative use.

George W. Bush, a manifest and good Christian, kill hundreds of thousand
people in the Irak war.

The most republican and religious states of US kill every year a lot of
criminals.
Post by fasgnadh
There are lots of situations even today in which Moslems are
slaughtering non-Moslems wholesale, and between Xtain and Moslem
morality there is not a ha'panny's difference.
OK, following your generalisation, Christian there is not any difference
neither.

Regards,
Leto Atreides
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-22 10:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the 1300s
and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of the
church by saying they happened in the past. If that is the truth then we
should stop sending former Nazi's to jail because the holocaust is in the
past.
fasgnadh
2009-04-22 11:35:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of
the church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)

1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D

That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!

Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY BEYOND all
you atheist moral defectives;
Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist! They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D

It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone.. (i care not a
fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in contrast to the latest
Divine Revelation which was launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith and a renewed new
revelation, because ALL of history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era, the choice, if you
want civilisation, is still which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the 20th
Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical world was said
to be completely un-xian but torturing and burning anyone who believed
such was entirely xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared to the 40,000,000
killed by atheists in the 'modern'(sic) era???
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN Christianity
for Dark Deeds in the Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and of each
other') when I say simply 'atheism is historically a Tyranny, in EVERY
case of atheist regimes, and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern Church responsible
for ancient misdeeds, dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from insignificance in
history, to 20th century mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force in the history
of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration and
sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world
view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic
solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most
famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer, even when
persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years the Church
apologised! B^D
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal
Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the
Milne
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research
Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness and the church
was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The church still plays that role today condemning millions in Africa
to die for a doctrine by its teachings on contraception and condoms.
It's mistakes in no way match the deliberate slaughter by
historical atheism, killing over 40,000,000 people
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it inflicted five
brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised and murdered tens of
millions, before being re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
--
# Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
# -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
# fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
#
# From: fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups:
# alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
# alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
# Message-ID: <8QNtl.26734$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:07:32 GMT
#
# American Religious Identification Survey, Summary Report March 2009:
#
# "Self-identification of U.S. Adult Population by Religious Tradition
#
# 2001 2008
#
# Non- religious 29,481,000 (14.1%) 34,169,000 (15%)
#
# Agnostics 991,000 (0.5%) 1,985,000 (0.9%)
#
# Atheists 902,000 (0.4%) 1,621,000 (0.7%)
#
#
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
#
#
# 0.7% of Americans!! B^D 2.3% worldwide!!! B^D
#
# 'NON-RELIGIOUS' DOES NOT = ATHEIST, YOU DISHONEST CRETINS!
#
#
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS BEAT YOU!!! **AND** they grew FASTER!!!! B^D
ABC
2009-04-22 19:25:48 UTC
Permalink
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Which is as sane and sensible as he ever gets.
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-23 01:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of the
church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church and the
centuries of oppression and suffering.
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in the
name of communism.
Starkiller©
2009-04-23 02:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of the
church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church and the
centuries of oppression and suffering.
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in the
name of communism.
Since you want to put it that way then why don't you blow your own
brains out for what your ancestors did to the indigineous tribes of
various countries they invaded?
Seems you're very selective in how and who you hate. It appears you
only want to point fingers at your political adversaries while
ignoring your own backyard.
You want to live in the past fine. So take responsibility for it then
you racist murdering fuck.
There, same dog bit you scratched me. Hope your newly found blame for
your race's past makes you feel better now.
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-23 04:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Starkiller©
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of the
church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church and the
centuries of oppression and suffering.
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in the
name of communism.
Since you want to put it that way then why don't you blow your own
brains out for what your ancestors did to the indigineous tribes of
various countries they invaded?
Seems you're very selective in how and who you hate. It appears you
only want to point fingers at your political adversaries while
ignoring your own backyard.
You want to live in the past fine. So take responsibility for it then
you racist murdering fuck.
There, same dog bit you scratched me. Hope your newly found blame for
your race's past makes you feel better now.
Lol you have no idea how wrong you were. In case you were making a point. If
you were then I do not agree with the actions of white people in the past
one bit. The British Empire and other Empire's are brutal and barbaric. I
also think the way we treated Aboriginals was just horrible and inhuman and
the way the Americans treated black's or native Americans is barbaric.
But Christians today still try to justify the crimes of the church. I just
can't get past the way the church used to oppress humanity. Today I am free
to think for myself and free to reject superstition if I want to without
having to worry about being burnt at the stake. So why would I want to join
a religion that is still oppressive to this day? Why should I give up
thinking for myself?
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 07:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Starkiller©
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of the
church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church and the
centuries of oppression and suffering.
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in the
name of communism.
Since you want to put it that way then why don't you blow your own
brains out for what your ancestors did to the indigineous tribes of
various countries they invaded?
Seems you're very selective in how and who you hate. It appears you
only want to point fingers at your political adversaries while
ignoring your own backyard.
You want to live in the past fine. So take responsibility for it then
you racist murdering fuck.
There, same dog bit you scratched me. Hope your newly found blame for
your race's past makes you feel better now.
I do not agree with the actions of white people in the past one bit.
White people? You, who claims that members of the USSR politburo
were NOT atheits, when they freely admit the truth that they WERE
now wants to make a blanket condemnation of 'white people' for the
crimes against Australian aboriginals, when the Finns and the Japanese
and the Americans and the Russians had NOTHING to do with it!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHA


What a confused, muddle-headed illogical and irrational dimwit you are
Seon!

You haven't got any more sensible since you became an atheist just
because a theist made a fool of you!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAA
The British Empire and other Empire's are brutal
and barbaric.
Not in comparison to the Atheist tyrannies, eh?

C'mon.. show where the British Empire tortured terrorised
and murderd 20,000,000 people as just ONE athesit regime did??
I also think the way we treated Aboriginals was just
horrible and inhuman and the way the Americans treated black's or native
Americans is barbaric.
But atheists today still try to justify the crimes of their cult.
I just can't get past the way the church used to oppress humanity.
But you easily get past the way atheism did, and still does.
Today I am free
And still there are no takers on the market!

It seems to have a keen sense of value! B^D
and free to reject superstition if I want to
without having to worry about being burnt at the stake.
That is because burning heretics was a product of medieval
ignorance, not carried forward by the modern church, which has
progressed and evolved.. while atheist regimes are all quite recent,
So why would I want to join a religion
Why would any of them want you?

Stick with atheist confusion...
that is still oppressive to this day?
In Nth Korea, but that doesn't seem to bother any of you...
should I give up thinking for myself?
Show some evidence you have ever thought for yourself and
I will comment on the difference.
--
---------

The Harmony of Science and Religion"

"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."

- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^

Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)

`Abdu'l-Bahá, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.

"Bahá'u'lláh has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha


---------
ABC
2009-04-26 07:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAAHA
fasgnadh at his most articulate.
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-26 07:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Afew things worth replying to.
I am against the dictatorship of North Korea and I don't think any sane
Atheist supports it.
"That is because burning heretics was a product of medieval
ignorance, not carried forward by the modern church, which has
progressed and evolved.. while atheist regimes are all quite recent,"
children are still brainwashed by their parents and not allowed to read
Harry Potter and Pagan children have their rights taken away by their
parents. Oppression might still not go on in the church but followers still
support it.
And for the billionth time what Stalin, Mao, Kim Jong, Pol Pot and all the
other communist dictators did were in the name of communism. Atheism did not
make them do it the way religion made Muslims carry out 911 or Christians
burn Joan of Arc, a child, at the stake. Communism made them do it and
Communism is a scam. The western bankers funded Lennon and Trosvky, the
President at the time allowed them to have a passport. The Communist
revelation was just an excuse for the bankers to set up power in Russia.
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 10:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Afew things worth replying to.
I disagree, none of them were worth replying to..

you have snipped and ran away from EVERY question put to you..

cadit quaetio
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-26 11:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
you have snipped and ran away from EVERY question put to you..
Like you did for me?
Hey fasg here's one last thing for you to reply to. If you have the guts.
Where is the EVIDENCE God exists? Where is the EVIDENCE any religion's
claims are true? Or should we just take the word of 4 anonymous authors who
wrote 2,000 years ago or take the word of con men like Muhammad or Joseph
Smith? Oh wait that's more then one...
fasgnadh
2009-04-25 14:54:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of
the church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D
That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!
Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY BEYOND all
you atheist moral defectives;
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church
You are the only one claiming that it does. B^p

I have NEVER denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument
left!

What people Can witness with their own eyes is that you deny the
crimes of the Athesit regimes, much greater and in the 'MODERN' era!

In the Dark Ages, illiteracy, ignorance and brutality were the NORM,
in the 20th century they were the NORM in atheist societies, but not
in tolerant, moderate religious democractic societies (eg USA Australia)

Your 'argument' really can't get any weaker.


If you seriously prefer atheist shitholes why don't you fuck offf
to North Korea...

The fact that you don't means that, LIKE ALL ATHEISTS, you prefer
to live as a TINY MINORITY in religious societies, than anywhere
where atheism rules!!!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA

Game Set Match!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the centuries of oppression and suffering.
What 'centuries of oppression and suffering'??

All of us alive now can remember the 20,000,000
killed by the Soviet Union and the 20,000,000 killed in
Mao's China both ATHEIST REGIMES.

How can you compare that to life in a modern democratic
society based on religion and spiritual teaching such as
the USA, Australia, Europe!?

You just look silly.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in the
name of communism.
They were ATHEIST regimes.. the only ones in history!!! B^]

EVERY atheist regime was a bloody TYRANNY, and their people
could NOT WAIT till they were assigned to the dustbin of history and
religion once more permitted!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist!
They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D
It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone..
(i care not a fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in
contrast to the latest Divine Revelation which was
launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith
and a renewed new revelation, because ALL of
history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era,
the choice, if you want civilisation, is still
which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the
20th Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical
world was said to be completely un-xian but
torturing and burning anyone who believed such was entirely
xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared
to the 40,000,000 killed by atheists in the
'modern'(sic) era???
What? NO ANSWER FROM SEON THE LIGHTWEIGHT?!!!!?
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN
Christianity for Dark Deeds in the
Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and
of each other') when I say simply 'atheism is
historically a Tyranny, in EVERY case of atheist regimes,
and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern
Church responsible for ancient misdeeds,
dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from
insignificance in history, to 20th century
mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force
in the history of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration
and sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry
based on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a
heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting
Platonic solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas;
his later and most famous scientific contribution,
the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer,
even when persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years
the Church apologised! B^D
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the
Scientific Revolution in the Western World.
honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him.
He did important work on invariants and geometry.
His Meditations on First Philosophy partially
concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics),
Pascal's theorem (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica
Infinitorumis, introduced the term Continued fraction,
worked on cryptography, helped develop calculus,
and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants,
a calculating machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy,
contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method,
a french chemist and microbiologist.
He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal
and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on
vacuum tubes, Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize
in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed
the Milne model and had a Moon crater named for him.
Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory.
Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal,
and the Lewis Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George
Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human
Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher Isham Theoretical physicist who developed
HPO formalism.
Martin Nowak Evolutionary biologist and mathematician
best known for evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist
SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness
and the church was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who
has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect
has intended us to forego their use and by some other means
to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
experience or necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly
imbued with the aspiration toward truth
and understanding. This source of feeling, however,
springs from the sphere of Religion... science without
religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand
even though we are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are
marvellously discerned in all His works and divinely
read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite
in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no
idea of the manner by which the All-Wise
God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us,
of why and how an old song can move us to tears..
.. Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
Apart from Newton, Galileao, Kepler, Pasteur, Pascal, Kelvin, Fleming,
Planck, Euler, Boyle, Leibnitz, Babbage, Mendel.. et al
BWAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it
inflicted five brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised
and murdered tens of millions, before being
re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-26 01:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of
the church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D
That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!
Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY BEYOND all
you atheist moral defectives;
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church
You are the only one claiming that it does. B^p
I have NEVER denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch burning..
NEVER. YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument left!
Your kidding right? Since religion has been responsible for the suffering of
humanity and it is sill is why should I join whatever religion you belong
to? It is still responsible for suffering to this day. Look at 911 and the
terrorist attacks commited by Muslims for "Allah" look at Israel. If there
was no religion the Jews would not have a reason to reinvade it. Maybe the
Zionists will but they couldn't claim God told them to.
Post by fasgnadh
What people Can witness with their own eyes is that you deny the
crimes of the Athesit regimes, much greater and in the 'MODERN' era!
What about Saudi Arabia? And the other Muslim regemes that are opressing
women and stoning people for withcrcaft, for being gay or for converting
from Islam? Those regemes are COMMUNIST they were not done in the name of
Atheism. How many times do I have to explain this to you?
Post by fasgnadh
In the Dark Ages, illiteracy, ignorance and brutality were the NORM,
in the 20th century they were the NORM in atheist societies, but not
in tolerant, moderate religious democractic societies (eg USA Australia)
Australia is a secular society. USA was originally a secular one as well but
the religious right took over.
Post by fasgnadh
Your 'argument' really can't get any weaker.
If you seriously prefer atheist shitholes why don't you fuck offf
to North Korea...
That is not an atheist shithole. It is a communist shit hole. None of the
things the dictator did were in the name of Atheism.
Post by fasgnadh
The fact that you don't means that, LIKE ALL ATHEISTS, you prefer
to live as a TINY MINORITY in religious societies, than anywhere
where atheism rules!!!!
I'm not an athist but religion has oppressed humanity. But it used to be the
TINY MINORITY thought the Earth was round when everyone was saying it was
flat. It used to be the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth revolved around the
sun while the majority thought it was the other way round. Don't you get it?
Just because everyone believes something is true doesn't make it true. I
wish I could heighlight that to empthasise it.
Post by fasgnadh
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
Game Set Match!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the centuries of oppression and suffering.
What 'centuries of oppression and suffering'??
The burning times, the crusades, the spanish Inquisision, torturing people,
burning heratics at the stake, you can't be that dense can you?
Post by fasgnadh
All of us alive now can remember the 20,000,000
killed by the Soviet Union and the 20,000,000 killed in
Mao's China both ATHEIST REGIMES.
How can you compare that to life in a modern democratic
society based on religion and spiritual teaching such as
the USA, Australia, Europe!?
The founding fathers despised Christianity but they put in relligious
freedom in the consitution because they believed religioun gave us morals.
Australia well I am not forced to go to church like you and the Christian
democrats would want. Society needs to be secular. The government needs to
be neautral. Otherwise you turn out like a religious shithole like Saudi
barbaria.
Post by fasgnadh
You just look silly.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in the
name of communism.
They were ATHEIST regimes.. the only ones in history!!! B^]
They said they were communist regimes. Nothing to do with atheism. Give me
one quote where any of the oppression had to do with Atheism and nothing to
do with communism.
Post by fasgnadh
EVERY atheist regime was a bloody TYRANNY, and their people
could NOT WAIT till they were assigned to the dustbin of history and
religion once more permitted!
So was every Christian regime. Look at what Bush did in the last 8 years.
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist!
They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D
It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone..
(i care not a fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in
contrast to the latest Divine Revelation which was
launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith
and a renewed new revelation, because ALL of
history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era,
the choice, if you want civilisation, is still
which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the
20th Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical
world was said to be completely un-xian but
torturing and burning anyone who believed such was entirely
xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared
to the 40,000,000 killed by atheists in the
'modern'(sic) era???
What? NO ANSWER FROM SEON THE LIGHTWEIGHT?!!!!?
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN
Christianity for Dark Deeds in the
Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and
of each other') when I say simply 'atheism is
historically a Tyranny, in EVERY case of atheist regimes,
and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern
Church responsible for ancient misdeeds,
dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from
insignificance in history, to 20th century
mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force
in the history of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration
and sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry
based on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a
heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting
Platonic solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas;
his later and most famous scientific contribution,
the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer,
even when persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years
the Church apologised! B^D
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the
Scientific Revolution in the Western World.
honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him.
He did important work on invariants and geometry.
His Meditations on First Philosophy partially
concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics),
Pascal's theorem (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica
Infinitorumis, introduced the term Continued fraction,
worked on cryptography, helped develop calculus,
and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants,
a calculating machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy,
contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method,
a french chemist and microbiologist.
He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal
and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on
vacuum tubes, Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed
the Milne model and had a Moon crater named for him.
Gold Medal of the Royal Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory.
Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal,
and the Lewis Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George
Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human
Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher Isham Theoretical physicist who developed
HPO formalism.
Martin Nowak Evolutionary biologist and mathematician
best known for evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness
and the church was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who
has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect
has intended us to forego their use and by some other means
to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
experience or necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly
imbued with the aspiration toward truth
and understanding. This source of feeling, however,
springs from the sphere of Religion... science without
religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand
even though we are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are
marvellously discerned in all His works and divinely
read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no
idea of the manner by which the All-Wise
God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us,
of why and how an old song can move us to tears..
.. Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
Apart from Newton, Galileao, Kepler, Pasteur, Pascal, Kelvin, Fleming,
Planck, Euler, Boyle, Leibnitz, Babbage, Mendel.. et al
BWAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it
inflicted five brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised
and murdered tens of millions, before being
re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 05:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in
the 1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes
of the church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D
That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!
Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY BEYOND
all you atheist moral defectives;
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church
You are the only one claiming that it does. B^p
I have NEVER denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument left!
Your kidding right?
No. I have never denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. If i had, you could quote me doing it.. you can't
because YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument
left!


Here's proof that you have no argument left, this is known as
Begging the Question.

"Since you are a lying Pig Fucker..." would simply ASSUME, not prove,
that to be true;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Since religion has been responsible
Since when? Where's the evidence? You have NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.

The only 'facts' you present are SEVEN CENTURIES OLD!! B^D

Are you trying to PROVE that religion has progressed, while
atheism, which KILLED 40,000,000 IN LIVING MEMORY, has REGRESSED?

Nice job, although it appears to have been unintentional on your part!
Post by Seon Ferguson
for the suffering of humanity
So you are arguing that the BILLIONS of believers of the planet
who live peaceful lives, raising their families, quietly worshipping,
running charities and schools are creating more suffering than the
Atheist regimes which tortured and terrorised 40,000,000 people in
last century ALONE!??

I have posted the detiled death tolls from atheist regimes..
where is YOUR evidence...

Oh.. that's right, you IRRATIONAL athesits with NO ARGUMENT, NEVER
HAVE ANY .. that's why you go back to the Dark Ages to drag out
examples FROM THE TIME OF MEDIEVAL BARBARISM, which you think supports
your cause.
Post by Seon Ferguson
and it is sill is
Nope.. Wilberforce (Christian) abolished Slavery, Tahireh(Bahai)
declared the Emancipation of Women, half a century before the
Sufragettes in Europe, Islam gave us the Hospice and surgical
instruments still in use.. Hinduism delivered us the Zero..
and Atheism IS one big ZERO!

B^]

Because you have no argument you keep inventing Straw Man
Arguments and posturing angrily as you debate YOURSELF;
Post by Seon Ferguson
why should I join whatever religion you belong to?
Who asked you to? B^)

You just have serial Hissy Fits when your last bullshit is mocked,
and you try an distract from every failure with new bullshit!
Post by Seon Ferguson
It is still responsible for suffering to this day.
"whatever religion I belong to" is responsible for
suffering to this Day?

How can you make such a claim when a) you don't know if I belong to
a religion, let alone which it might be, and b) you have no evidence
of anything like the 40,000,000 death toll from just TWO atheist regimes!


So, here you go. Pretend I am one of these religions and tell
me how many deaths in the past century it is responsible for.

If you can't, then admit defeat, and possibly investgate each one
as cantidates for True Faith;

1. Quakers.

2. Amish.

3. Bahai.

4. Buddhist.

You can't even show that any of those are responsible for even as many
deaths as that atheist Pol Pots Year Zero Genocide, rterrorising and
killing millions.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Look at 911 and the terrorist attacks commited by Muslims for
"Allah"
200,000,000 Indonesian Muslims caught tried and executed a handful
of Islamofascist terrorists. How can you claim that Islam is the cause,
when Muslims were the MAIN VICTIMS **AND** chiefly responsible for
OPPOSING IT.

Are you seriously claiming that if 200,000,000 Muslims are attacked
by a handful of Islamofascist psychopaths acting on POLITICAL motives
and in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the Qur'an, that you choose to hold the
latter as representing Islam, not the former? 8^o

In my view such support of the terrorists is Islamophobic CLAPTRAP,
and you BELONG with the fundies responsible as you have chosen to
believe THEM, and not the VAST MAJORITY of peaceful Muslims, who are
the main VICTIMS of terror.

Moreover, how can you then excuse ANY atheists when EVERY ATHEIST
REGIME.. that is the WHOLE NATION, has been a totalitarian TYRANNY!!!

It seems you are quite illogical and irrational, arguing from PREJUDICE.

Are you familiar with Professor Robert Pape?

"Mohammed Khan the ringleader of the London bombings of 7/7
declared clearly in his martyrdom video that his central
motive was "to punish Britain for atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan,
and other Muslim nations"

Hussein Osma, July 21 would-be bomber said in his interrogation;

'This was not about religion, this was about Iraq, we watched
videos of western military atrocities in Iraq'" - Pape, "Dying to Win"

Prof Robert Pape, a distinguished academic whose work has been
funded by the Pentagon, and whose views are so respected
by the US Military that he taught at Dartmouth and 'air power
strategy' at the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower Studies,
conducted the ONLY study of the MOTIVATION of suicide bombers,
and thus he doesn't GUESS like Bush did, he UNDERSTANDS
what THE BOMBERS say are their reasons!!!

"The evidence shows that the presence of American troops
is clearly the pivotal factor driving suicide terrorism."

"A study by University of Chicago political scientist
Robert Pape of 462 suicide-terrorist attacks between
1980 and 2004 worldwide found the overwhelming reason
for the attacks was a clear political objective and
in more than 95 per cent of the cases the "central
objective" was the eviction of foreign troops.

"Before our invasion, Iraq never had a suicide-terrorist
attack in its history. Never. Since our invasion,
suicide terrorism has been escalating rapidly with 20
attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004, and over 50 in just the
first five months of 2005. Every year that the United
States has stationed 150,000 combat troops in Iraq,
suicide terrorism has doubled."

The Bush administration knows this, but avoids the truth;



"Robert A. Pape is Professor of Political Science at the University of
Chicago specializing in international security affairs. His publications
include Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (Random
House 2005); Bombing to Win: Air Power and Coercion in War (Cornell
1996), "Why Economic Sanctions Do Not Work," International Security
(1997), "The Determinants of International Moral Action," International
Organization (1999); "The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,"
American Political Science Review (2003); and "Soft Balancing against
the United States," International Security (2005). His commentary on
international security policy has appeared in The New York Times,
Washington Post, New Republic, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, as well as on Nightline, ABC News, CBS
News, CNN, Fox News, and National Public Radio. Before coming to Chicago
in 1999, he taught international relations at Dartmouth College for five
years and air power strategy for the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower
Studies for three years. He received his Ph. D. from the University of
Chicago in 1988 and graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from
the University of Pittsburgh in 1982. His current work focuses on the
causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity."

http://political-science.uchicago.edu/faculty/pape.html

"Robert Pape graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the
University of Pittsburgh in 1982 and earned his Ph.D. from the
University of Chicago in 1988. During his Ph.D. program he was a TA for
a class taught by John Mearsheimer. He taught international relations at
Dartmouth College from 1991 to 1996 and air power strategy at the United
States Air Force's School of Advanced Airpower Studies from 1996 to
1999. Since 1999 he has taught at the University of Chicago, where he is
Associate Professor of Political Science. He defines the focus of his
current work as "the effect of technological change on conflict and
cooperation among major powers and the theory and practice of suicide
terrorism."

After presenting preliminary data on his research into suicide terrorism
in the American Political Science Review in 2003, Pape founded the
Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, which he directs. The project is
funded by the Carnegie Corporation, the Pentagon's Defense Threat
Reduction Agency, the University of Chicago, and the Argonne National
Laboratory." - wikipedia
Post by Seon Ferguson
look at Israel.
The creation of Political state by Europeans GUILTY over the Nazi
PERSECUTION of a RELIGION, imposing their solution by APPROPRIATING
Palestinian land!?

Palestinians are Christian AND Muslim, many Zionists were not even
religious.. the problem is a POLITICAL one, as is made clear when
you consider the centuries in which Jews, Muslims and Christians
co-existed poeacefully, as they do in Australia right now!!! B^]

You are trying to substitute propaganda for rational argument.

Very weak, intellectually fraudulent and lacking in integrity.
Post by Seon Ferguson
If there was no religion the Jews would not have
a reason to reinvade it.
They always had religion, they never re-invaded.. thus Religion is
not the CAUSE.

The imposition of Israel on the Palestinians was by Europeans,
acting out of Guilt over yet another Pogrom persecuting Religious,
it was a POLITICAL cause, and the Zionist state and Hamas
both USE religion to gain support in their POLITICAL STRUGGLE.

Arabs and Jews live peacefully in other POLITICAL CONTEXTS
around the world.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe the Zionists will but they couldn't claim
God told them to.
Zionism is a political movement, not a religion.

You are the one who is on record claiming the 40,000,000
dead in atheist regimes is not the fault of atheists, because they
are also communists.. are you sure you wish to persist with such hypocrisy?


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

All you have to do now is prove that terrorism is a natural
and INSEPERABLE part of theism..

Hard to do when most religious societies are NOT terrorist,
but ALL atheist regimes have been.

Off you go Sonny Jim, your arse has been kicked ..again!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
What people Can witness with their own eyes is that you deny the
crimes of the Athesit regimes, much greater and in the 'MODERN' era!
What about Saudi Arabia?
It's not an atheist regime you are denying. So you concede my point.

It is a vile Theocracy. I, because I am consistent, denounce it,
and i note while doing so that it is NOT TYPICAL of Islam.

Indonesia, the worlds largest Muslim nation, is.

We all note your hypocrisy, you SELECTIVELY choose the LEAST
representative but WORST example of Islam in an attempt to
distract from the now proven accusation that you defend atheism,
where EVERY Atheist regime has been a totalitarian TYRANNY.

Your hypocrisy is well established.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And the other Muslim regemes that are opressing
women and stoning people for withcrcaft, for being gay or for converting
from Islam?
1,800,000,000 Muslims, how many individual crimes have you documented.

On your kind of RABID LUNATIC ILLOGIC, *Men* are Guilty of everything
and should be denounced!

Your PREJUDICE is based on just such a simple category error.

The Nazis built their tyranny on such propaganda tools,
they found a Jewish rapist and saturated the public
discourse with the term Jewish Rapist, creating a bogus
and deadly Collective Responsibility.

That is what you are doing to MILLIONS of innocent Muslims,
while you are a Holocaust denier when it comes to the
ATHEIST holocausts on a far more vast scale.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Those regemes are COMMUNIST they were not done in the name
of Atheism.
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

Nazi Criminals were not as forthcoming as the Atheist who
INITIATED the Red Terror.. they never said "We are going
to slaughter Jews" they just did it.

What you are doing is IGNORING the deaths of 40,000,000
victims of EXPLICITLY ATHEIST REGIMES, TARGETTING PRIESTS,
CHURCHES NAD RELIGION, and trying to pretend it wan't done
by atheists.. when Lenin shows you are wrong in claiming
"it wasn't done in the name of atheism" .. which would
be a PISS WEAK attempt to excuse atheist regimes anyway!!! 8^o

Then, when 16 in 1,800,000,000 Muslims commits a crime killing
3,000 people, including Muslims, you take the CRIMINALS claim
that they 'do it in the name of Islam' and SIMPLY SWALLOW IT 8^o

So you can blame the 1,800,000,000 INNOCENT Muslims, including
the VICTIMS of the trerrorist act!!!?!!?

WHAT KIND OF HATE FILLED FUCKING BIGOT ARE YOU????

And, the final straw in your IRRATIONAL HATRED, the terrorist
acts are EXPLICITLY condemmned in the Qur'an!

Where dose atheist ideology explicity oppose the terror and
slaughter of the atheist regimes???


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Atheists demonstrate that communist tyranny is Still
'in the name of atheism' to this day! (YOUR weak apologia, NOT
MINE!)

Atheist Holocaust deniers still celebrate mass murdering atheist tyrants;

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8294?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8293?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8292?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8291?context=latest



"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Atheist Communists

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8297?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/photo/search?q=che
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=9#
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=8
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=467
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest



"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Rred Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.'
Post by Seon Ferguson
How many times do I have to explain this to you?
Repeating your lies does not improve their veracity.

# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
Loading Image...

#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
Loading Image...


Why do atheist regimes ALWAYS murder and terrorise religious,
while MOST religious societies allow atheist minorities their
human rights?


#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
In the Dark Ages, illiteracy, ignorance and brutality were the NORM,
in the 20th century they were the NORM in atheist societies, but not
in tolerant, moderate religious democractic societies (eg USA Australia)
Australia is a secular society. USA was originally a secular one as well
Both have religious majorities..

Atheism in the USA is a mere 0.7% of the population, but, unlike EVERY
atheist tyranny, such minority beliefs are tolerated as part of
universal Human Rights, DENIED in EVERY atheist state!!

Why do you you atheists ALWAYS crush minorities and suppress human
rights EVERY TIME you seize power?
Post by Seon Ferguson
but the religious right took over.
Now the religious majority has crushed the right and installed a
MODERATE, intelligent, black BELIEVER...

and the rights of atheists are still protected.. why do you atheist
hypocrites support atheist regimes which ALWAYS deny such basic rights..?

Why do you prefer to live among civilised MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies,
rather than totalitarian shitholes where atheist TYRANTS rule???

That is, why don't you fuck off yo the PARADISE which you all always
claim will result when Religion is ELIMINATED, but never DOES HAPPEN..

I will pay for your tickets to Nth Korea, so you can WAKE THE FUCK UP
about the endless SHITDRIBBLE you spout in Usenet!!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Your 'argument' really can't get any weaker.
If you seriously prefer atheist shitholes why don't you fuck offf
to North Korea...
That is not an atheist shithole. It is a communist shit hole.
Nothing has changed among the Holocaust Deniers:

EVERY PARTY MEMBER OF THE SOVIET RULING PARTY WAS AN ATHEIST!!!!

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
Post by Seon Ferguson
None of
the things the dictator did were in the name of Atheism.
The Nazi's Final Solution was not announced "IN THE NAME OF NAZISM"
either, you immoral shitpig.. but it was REAL and Committed by Nazis!

You on the other hand choose to believe what terrorists SAY! pffft

What a complete fuckwit!

THE ATHEIST UNION OF SAVAGE SLAUGHTER AND REPRESSION - USSR's terror
torture and murder of 20,000,000 which WAS ANNOUNCED AS SPECIFIC
ATHEIST POLICY by the ATHEIST In CHARGE! And implemented by an
All-Atheist Party!


Suck it UP, you morally defective apologist for the atheist holocaust!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
The fact that you don't means that, LIKE ALL ATHEISTS, you prefer
to live as a TINY MINORITY in religious societies, than anywhere
where atheism rules!!!!
I'm not an athist
You are an apologist for atheist crimes, an atheist holocaust denier.

You are FAR MORE COMPLICIT than the 1.8 Billion Muslims YOU blame
for terrorist acts by a tiny minority who are REPUDIATED by the
majority of Muslims.

The Majority of atheists, like you, DENY AND DEFEND the Atheist
Crimes against humanity...

The Islamic council of Australia denounces Terror.

Everyone can see the difference!
Post by Seon Ferguson
but religion has oppressed humanity.
You never have any facts to support your lies.

The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration
and sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)

There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.

- Galileo Galilei 1615.

..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954

The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it

- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher

The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven

- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642

I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world

- Louis Pasteur 1822-95

As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.

- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727

The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.

- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918

There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.

- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918

"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington

Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.

- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)

John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)

Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)

Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)

Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)

Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.

Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)

Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)

Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)

Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)

Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)



Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)

Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)


"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein

"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28

"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)


Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;

Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.

Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.

William Turner the "father of English botany"

John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.

Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,

Galileo Galilei

René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.

Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).

Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology

Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.

John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.


Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine

Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.

Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society

Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.

Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.

Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,

Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician

Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday

Charles Babbage

Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"

Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.

Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.


Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,

Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials

Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry

John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.

Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics

Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,

Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.

Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest

Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science

von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.

Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.

Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.

John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.

Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.

Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize

Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.

John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.

Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.

Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.

Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.


And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist nation has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist
SHITHOLE!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
He has abandoned the field, run off by the weight of EVIDENCE! B^)
Post by Seon Ferguson
But it used to be
the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth was round when everyone was saying
it was flat.
It was Christians (Galileao, Kepler) who showed IGNORANT
humanity the way!! B^D

It was Muslims who gave you Algebra, Hospitals and Surgical instruments
still in use today..

How come Religion always leads mankind forward, not atheism,
which only produces TOTALITARIAN SHITHOLES!!

It's a 100% correlation: Atheist Regimes = Tyranny
Post by Seon Ferguson
It used to be the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth revolved
around the sun while the majority thought it was the other way round.
Originally that minority was TWO (count them, 2) CHRISTIANS.. B^D

Galileao and Kepler. (Yes Yes you whining hypocrites, the Church
persecuted Galileao, but he remained focused on God and Truth,
not organisations dedicated to their own power.. and so
GALILEAO WON ;-)

Now.. where were the atheists?? 8^o

None had the idea, None even supported Galileao when HE DID!
Are they all GUTLESS COWARDS? or MORE
IGNORANT than these ground breaking Theist scientists!? B^D

..or were they simply IRRELEVANT and ALMOST NON-EXISTENT,
like they are now!?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Don't you get it?
I have always got it. Read Brecht for a powerful
re-construction of the the Church's persecution of
Galileao.

You just misunderstand because you confuse religion
and the spiritual teachings it is based upon.

I can put on a priest's costume , like Atheists at a gay
Mardi Gras, and fuck you up the arse..

You would blame religion, I would say "is it in accord
with the teaching of religion"? No, then it's not religion,
it's some evil fuck PRETENDING, wanting to blame SOMEONE
or SOMETHING else, rather than himself, and you are so lacking
in intelligence and judgement that you simply BELIEVE whatever
any criminal tells you.. you are seriously fucked in more ways than
one! !! B^D
Post by Seon Ferguson
Just because everyone believes something is true
doesn't make it true.
You believe 16 blokes with boxcutters who bitchslapped
the worlds superpower in resentment and anger at a range of
political and cultural humiliations, when they say "we act
in the name of Islam"!!! How fucking idiotic are YOU!???

And yet you deny that atheism is responsible when an ATHEIST
Regime, led by an atheist leader of a party of Atheists
implement Atheist policy, killing and torturing religious,
stealing their porperty and subjecting Children to
Forced indoctrination in Atheist ideology in school, and adults
in Gulags, camps and the NKVD dungeons!!

How fuckng HYPOCRITICAL ARE YOU??
Post by Seon Ferguson
I wish I could heighlight that to empthasise it.
Oh, I think you have emphasised your idiocy and hypocrisy quite well

But i doubt anyone but atheists empathise with you!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
Game Set Match!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the centuries of oppression and suffering.
What 'centuries of oppression and suffering'??
The burning times, the crusades, the spanish Inquisision, torturing
people, burning heratics at the stake, you can't be that dense can you?
Oh you mean back in the Dark Ages, the pre-literate era of humanity?
Before Islam, the Reformation, and the flowering of Judeao/Christian
Islamic Civilisation?


And how does the death toll for your medieval complaints stack up
to the recent Atheist death toll.

Inquisiiton.. 20,000?

Witch burnings.. 2,000

All centuries ago.. and yet, in living memory, we have
40,000,000 dead from the atheist holocausts..

i think the historical evidence is Clear..

Religions have progressed, athesim regressed and no matter
how you look at it, the suffering and death under EVERY
atheist regime is far greater than than under a few, atypical,
religious societies.

That explains why people, including atheists, choose to live in
MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies, like Australia, the USA Europe
India, Indonesia, than in Athsit regimes, USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots
Cambodia and Nth Korea.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
All of us alive now can remember the 20,000,000
killed by the Soviet Union and the 20,000,000 killed in
Mao's China both ATHEIST REGIMES.
How can you compare that to life in a modern democratic
society based on religion and spiritual teaching such as
the USA, Australia, Europe!?
The founding fathers despised Christianity but they put in relligious
freedom in the consitution because they believed religioun gave us morals.
They seem to have been correct, when you compare it to the recent
Atheist experiments which all ended in terror, torture and death, human
misery on an UNPRECEDENTED scale!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Australia well I am not forced to go to church like you
No one is forced to go to church!

"There must be no compulsion in religion"

You are confusing modern, mainly religious societies with recent
Atheist tyrannies!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the Christian democrats would want.
Prposterous.. Show evidence for your claim that I,
or Christian Democrats, want to force people to attend church!

Why do you have to constantly resort to LIES and unfounded
opinions!????
Post by Seon Ferguson
Society needs to be secular.
Oh so it's YOU that wants to impose what YOU believe is 'necessary'

No surprises then that you are an apologist for Lenin, who DID what
you advocate!

Fucking TYRANTS!

Society needs to be FREE. The government needs to respect ALL
religious views, anti religious views and don't know or don't care -
theism, atheism and agnosticism.

Which is what we have, created by a predominately RELIGIOUS
society, with Legal RIGHTS for athesits and agnostics
guaranteed!! What a contrast with EVERY atheist regime!!! B^[
Post by Seon Ferguson
The government needs to be neautral.
That is a direct contradiction of your claim that society
needs to be secular.

A majority religious society can have a President who prays,
and can have hymns and prayers at ANZAC ceremonies, and
prayers in parliament, but still recognises the rights of the
tiny atheist minority not to take part, just as a majority
hetero society can celebrate and support childbirth and rearing,
but does not try and make homosexuals have sex with the opposite
gender.

You don't seem to understand the BALANCE, which is why you
always take such idiotically extremist positions;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Otherwise you turn out like a religious
shithole like Saudi barbaria.
Not typical of Islam, though is it! B^)

Vastly outnumbered by Indonesian Muslims.

Whereas EVERY ATHEIST REGIME has been WORSE than the worst,
ATYPICAL Muslim nation you could cite!! B^D

EVERY ONE.. that's 100% of atheist regimes!! 8^o

You seem to be too dumb to understand what that means!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
You just look silly.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in
the name of communism.
They were ATHEIST regimes.. the only ones in history!!! B^]
They said they were communist regimes.
Sure, the Nazis said they were Deutchland, but they were STILL NAZIS!

Every member of the Ruling communist party WAS AN ATHEIST, their
Leader, Lenin, who initiated the atheist Red Terror was an atheist,
they implemented explicitly atheist politicies, the Founder of communism
was an atheist.. so explain, WHY Do YOU THINK THAT BEING COMMUNISTS
MAKES THEM NOT ATHEISTS????

Now, you are clearly an ignorant fuckwit who can't claim to speak for a
significant body of atheists.. this bloke can:

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin


Prove him wrong.

The historical evidence shows you are an idiot.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Nothing to do with atheism.
http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html
Post by Seon Ferguson
Give me one quote where any of the oppression
had to do with Atheism
You have been snipping them and pretending they don't exist
for ages! B^D

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Loading Image...
Post by Seon Ferguson
and nothing to do with communism.
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Loading Image...
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
EVERY atheist regime was a bloody TYRANNY, and their people
could NOT WAIT till they were assigned to the dustbin of history and
religion once more permitted!
So was every Christian regime.
Bullshit.

You are simply a cheap bare faced liar!

Every atheist state has been a tyranny..

No one has ever presented an atheist state which was not a tyranny.

Most majority religious nations, are, like Australia, open,
democratic, tolerant and protective of human rights.

Not ONE Atheist nation has been!!

Put up or shut up, you pathetic LIAR!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Look at what Bush did in the last 8 years.
The same MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nation, tossed out the republicans
and elected a MODERATE believer.

Suck it up! The problem may be democracy, the solution has
been to elect a GENUINE believer, not a political fraud! B^0

Now, tell us one atheist state where theists can EVEN STAND
for office, rather than be killed for their faith???


You ignore the facts and blather bullshit;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist!
They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D
It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone..
(i care not a fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in
contrast to the latest Divine Revelation which was
launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith
and a renewed new revelation, because ALL of
history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era,
the choice, if you want civilisation, is still
which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the
20th Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical
world was said to be completely un-xian but
torturing and burning anyone who believed such was entirely
xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared
to the 40,000,000 killed by atheists in the
'modern'(sic) era???
What? NO ANSWER FROM SEON THE LIGHTWEIGHT?!!!!?
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN
Christianity for Dark Deeds in the
Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and
of each other') when I say simply 'atheism is
historically a Tyranny, in EVERY case of atheist regimes,
and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern
Church responsible for ancient misdeeds,
dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from
insignificance in history, to 20th century
mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness
and the church was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Seon cannot deal with reality.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who
has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect
has intended us to forego their use and by some other means
to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
experience or necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly
imbued with the aspiration toward truth
and understanding. This source of feeling, however,
springs from the sphere of Religion... science without
religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand
even though we are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are
marvellously discerned in all His works and divinely
read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no
idea of the manner by which the All-Wise
God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us,
of why and how an old song can move us to tears..
.. Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
Apart from Newton, Galileao, Kepler, Pasteur, Pascal, Kelvin, Fleming,
Planck, Euler, Boyle, Leibnitz, Babbage, Mendel.. et al
BWAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA


"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"

The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]

Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it
inflicted five brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised
and murdered tens of millions, before being
re-assigned to the dustbin of history!

And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA

Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
--
"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.

If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?

Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.

Something else is."

- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape
ABC
2009-04-26 07:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-26 07:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
Fags will probably say the US government or something.
fasgnadh
2009-04-27 12:27:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Professor Robert Pape, the foremost international expert
Post by fasgnadh
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
Fags will probably say the US government or something.
If you can't debate me when I'm talking to you, you weak prick,
why don't you try whining like a little bitch to someone else! B^D

That way you can lie you stupid head off! B^]
--
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in
the 1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back
to the MEDIEVAL period to find misdeeds
by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric
crimes of the church by saying they happened in the past.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!!
B^)
1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D
That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the
PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!
Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY
BEYOND all you atheist moral defectives;
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church
You are the only one claiming that it does. B^p
I have NEVER denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the
witch burning.. NEVER. YOU made up the 'religious scum
stand up for the Barbaric crimes of the Church'
lie because you have no real argument left!
Your kidding right?
No. I have never denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. If i had, you could quote me doing it.. you can't
because YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument
left!


Here's proof that you have no argument left, this is known as
Begging the Question.

"Since you are a lying Pig Fucker..." would simply ASSUME, not prove,
that to be true;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Since religion has been responsible
Since when? Where's the evidence? You have NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.

The only 'facts' you present are SEVEN CENTURIES OLD!! B^D

Are you trying to PROVE that religion has progressed, while
atheism, which KILLED 40,000,000 IN LIVING MEMORY, has REGRESSED?

Nice job, although it appears to have been unintentional on your part!
Post by Seon Ferguson
for the suffering of humanity
So you are arguing that the BILLIONS of believers of the planet
who live peaceful lives, raising their families, quietly worshipping,
running charities and schools are creating more suffering than the
Atheist regimes which tortured and terrorised 40,000,000 people in
last century ALONE!??

I have posted the detiled death tolls from atheist regimes..
where is YOUR evidence...

Oh.. that's right, you IRRATIONAL athesits with NO ARGUMENT, NEVER
HAVE ANY .. that's why you go back to the Dark Ages to drag out
examples FROM THE TIME OF MEDIEVAL BARBARISM, which you think supports
your cause.
Post by Seon Ferguson
and it is sill is
Nope.. Wilberforce (Christian) abolished Slavery, Tahireh(Bahai)
declared the Emancipation of Women, half a century before the
Sufragettes in Europe, Islam gave us the Hospice and surgical
instruments still in use.. Hinduism delivered us the Zero..
and Atheism IS one big ZERO!

B^]

Because you have no argument you keep inventing Straw Man
Arguments and posturing angrily as you debate YOURSELF;
Post by Seon Ferguson
why should I join whatever religion you belong to?
Who asked you to? B^)

You just have serial Hissy Fits when your last bullshit is mocked,
and you try an distract from every failure with new bullshit!
Post by Seon Ferguson
It is still responsible for suffering to this day.
"whatever religion I belong to" is responsible for
suffering to this Day?

How can you make such a claim when a) you don't know if I belong to
a religion, let alone which it might be, and b) you have no evidence
of anything like the 40,000,000 death toll from just TWO atheist regimes!


So, here you go. Pretend I am one of these religions and tell
me how many deaths in the past century it is responsible for.

If you can't, then admit defeat, and possibly investgate each one
as cantidates for True Faith;

1. Quakers.

2. Amish.

3. Bahai.

4. Buddhist.

You can't even show that any of those are responsible for even as many
deaths as that atheist Pol Pots Year Zero Genocide, rterrorising and
killing millions.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Look at 911 and the terrorist attacks commited by Muslims for "Allah"
200,000,000 Indonesian Muslims caught tried and executed a handful
of Islamofascist terrorists. How can you claim that Islam is the cause,
when Muslims were the MAIN VICTIMS **AND** chiefly responsible for
OPPOSING IT.

Are you seriously claiming that if 200,000,000 Muslims are attacked
by a handful of Islamofascist psychopaths acting on POLITICAL motives
and in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the Qur'an, that you choose to hold the
latter as representing Islam, not the former? 8^o

In my view such support of the terrorists is Islamophobic CLAPTRAP,
and you BELONG with the fundies responsible as you have chosen to
believe THEM, and not the VAST MAJORITY of peaceful Muslims, who are
the main VICTIMS of terror.

Moreover, how can you then excuse ANY atheists when EVERY ATHEIST
REGIME.. that is the WHOLE NATION, has been a totalitarian TYRANNY!!!

It seems you are quite illogical and irrational, arguing from PREJUDICE.

Are you familiar with Professor Robert Pape?

"Mohammed Khan the ringleader of the London bombings of 7/7
declared clearly in his martyrdom video that his central
motive was "to punish Britain for atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan,
and other Muslim nations"

Hussein Osma, July 21 would-be bomber said in his interrogation;

'This was not about religion, this was about Iraq, we watched
videos of western military atrocities in Iraq'" - Pape, "Dying to Win"

Prof Robert Pape, a distinguished academic whose work has been
funded by the Pentagon, and whose views are so respected
by the US Military that he taught at Dartmouth and 'air power
strategy' at the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower Studies,
conducted the ONLY study of the MOTIVATION of suicide bombers,
and thus he doesn't GUESS like Bush did, he UNDERSTANDS
what THE BOMBERS say are their reasons!!!

"The evidence shows that the presence of American troops
is clearly the pivotal factor driving suicide terrorism."

"A study by University of Chicago political scientist
Robert Pape of 462 suicide-terrorist attacks between
1980 and 2004 worldwide found the overwhelming reason
for the attacks was a clear political objective and
in more than 95 per cent of the cases the "central
objective" was the eviction of foreign troops.

"Before our invasion, Iraq never had a suicide-terrorist
attack in its history. Never. Since our invasion,
suicide terrorism has been escalating rapidly with 20
attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004, and over 50 in just the
first five months of 2005. Every year that the United
States has stationed 150,000 combat troops in Iraq,
suicide terrorism has doubled."

The Bush administration knows this, but avoids the truth;

http://youtu.be/J1bm2GPoFfg

"Robert A. Pape is Professor of Political Science at the University of
Chicago specializing in international security affairs. His publications
include Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (Random
House 2005); Bombing to Win: Air Power and Coercion in War (Cornell
1996), "Why Economic Sanctions Do Not Work," International Security
(1997), "The Determinants of International Moral Action," International
Organization (1999); "The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,"
American Political Science Review (2003); and "Soft Balancing against
the United States," International Security (2005). His commentary on
international security policy has appeared in The New York Times,
Washington Post, New Republic, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, as well as on Nightline, ABC News, CBS
News, CNN, Fox News, and National Public Radio. Before coming to Chicago
in 1999, he taught international relations at Dartmouth College for five
years and air power strategy for the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower
Studies for three years. He received his Ph. D. from the University of
Chicago in 1988 and graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from
the University of Pittsburgh in 1982. His current work focuses on the
causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity."

http://political-science.uchicago.edu/faculty/pape.html

"Robert Pape graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the
University of Pittsburgh in 1982 and earned his Ph.D. from the
University of Chicago in 1988. During his Ph.D. program he was a TA for
a class taught by John Mearsheimer. He taught international relations at
Dartmouth College from 1991 to 1996 and air power strategy at the United
States Air Force's School of Advanced Airpower Studies from 1996 to
1999. Since 1999 he has taught at the University of Chicago, where he is
Associate Professor of Political Science. He defines the focus of his
current work as "the effect of technological change on conflict and
cooperation among major powers and the theory and practice of suicide
terrorism."

After presenting preliminary data on his research into suicide terrorism
in the American Political Science Review in 2003, Pape founded the
Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, which he directs. The project is
funded by the Carnegie Corporation, the Pentagon's Defense Threat
Reduction Agency, the University of Chicago, and the Argonne National
Laboratory." - wikipedia
Post by Seon Ferguson
look at Israel.
The creation of Political state by Europeans GUILTY over the Nazi
PERSECUTION of a RELIGION, imposing their solution by APPROPRIATING
Palestinian land!?

Palestinians are Christian AND Muslim, many Zionists were not even
religious.. the problem is a POLITICAL one, as is made clear when
you consider the centuries in which Jews, Muslims and Christians
co-existed poeacefully, as they do in Australia right now!!! B^]

You are trying to substitute propaganda for rational argument.

Very weak, intellectually fraudulent and lacking in integrity.
Post by Seon Ferguson
If there was no religion the Jews would not have
a reason to reinvade it.
They always had religion, they never re-invaded.. thus Religion is
not the CAUSE.

The imposition of Israel on the Palestinians was by Europeans,
acting out of Guilt over yet another Pogrom persecuting Religious,
it was a POLITICAL cause, and the Zionist state and Hamas
both USE religion to gain support in their POLITICAL STRUGGLE.

Arabs and Jews live peacefully in other POLITICAL CONTEXTS
around the world.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe the Zionists will but they couldn't claim
God told them to.
Zionism is a political movement, not a religion.

You are the one who is on record claiming the 40,000,000
dead in atheist regimes is not the fault of atheists, because they
are also communists.. are you sure you wish to persist with such hypocrisy?


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

All you have to do now is prove that terrorism is a natural
and INSEPERABLE part of theism..

Hard to do when most religious societies are NOT terrorist,
but ALL atheist regimes have been.

Off you go Sonny Jim, your arse has been kicked ..again!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
What people Can witness with their own eyes is that you deny the
crimes of the Athesit regimes, much greater and in the 'MODERN' era!
What about Saudi Arabia?
It's not an atheist regime you are denying. So you concede my point.

It is a vile Theocracy. I, because I am consistent, denounce it,
and i note while doing so that it is NOT TYPICAL of Islam.

Indonesia, the worlds largest Muslim nation, is.

We all note your hypocrisy, you SELECTIVELY choose the LEAST
representative but WORST example of Islam in an attempt to
distract from the now proven accusation that you defend atheism,
where EVERY Atheist regime has been a totalitarian TYRANNY.

Your hypocrisy is well established.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And the other Muslim regemes that are opressing
women and stoning people for withcrcaft, for being gay or for
converting from Islam?

1,800,000,000 Muslims, how many individual crimes have you documented.

On your kind of RABID LUNATIC ILLOGIC, *Men* are Guilty of everything
and should be denounced!

Your PREJUDICE is based on just such a simple category error.

The Nazis built their tyranny on such propaganda tools,
they found a Jewish rapist and saturated the public
discourse with the term Jewish Rapist, creating a bogus
and deadly Collective Responsibility.

That is what you are doing to MILLIONS of innocent Muslims,
while you are a Holocaust denier when it comes to the
ATHEIST holocausts on a far more vast scale.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Those regemes are COMMUNIST they were not done in the name
of Atheism.
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

Nazi Criminals were not as forthcoming as the Atheist who
INITIATED the Red Terror.. they never said "We are going
to slaughter Jews" they just did it.

What you are doing is IGNORING the deaths of 40,000,000
victims of EXPLICITLY ATHEIST REGIMES, TARGETTING PRIESTS,
CHURCHES NAD RELIGION, and trying to pretend it wan't done
by atheists.. when Lenin shows you are wrong in claiming
"it wasn't done in the name of atheism" .. which would
be a PISS WEAK attempt to excuse atheist regimes anyway!!! 8^o

Then, when 16 in 1,800,000,000 Muslims commits a crime killing
3,000 people, including Muslims, you take the CRIMINALS claim
that they 'do it in the name of Islam' and SIMPLY SWALLOW IT 8^o

So you can blame the 1,800,000,000 INNOCENT Muslims, including
the VICTIMS of the trerrorist act!!!?!!?

WHAT KIND OF HATE FILLED FUCKING BIGOT ARE YOU????

And, the final straw in your IRRATIONAL HATRED, the terrorist
acts are EXPLICITLY condemmned in the Qur'an!

Where dose atheist ideology explicity oppose the terror and
slaughter of the atheist regimes???


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Atheists demonstrate that communist tyranny is Still
'in the name of atheism' to this day! (YOUR weak apologia, NOT MINE!)

Atheist Holocaust deniers still celebrate mass murdering atheist tyrants;

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8294?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8293?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8292?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8291?context=latest



"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

Atheist Communists

http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8297?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/photo/search?q=che
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=9#
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=8
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=467
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest



"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Rred Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.'
Post by Seon Ferguson
How many times do I have to explain this to you?
Repeating your lies does not improve their veracity.

# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg

#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg


Why do atheist regimes ALWAYS murder and terrorise religious,
while MOST religious societies allow atheist minorities their
human rights?


#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
Post by Seon Ferguson
In the Dark Ages, illiteracy, ignorance and brutality were the NORM,
in the 20th century they were the NORM in atheist societies, but not
in tolerant, moderate religious democractic societies (eg USA Australia)
Australia is a secular society. USA was originally a secular one as well
Both have religious majorities..

Atheism in the USA is a mere 0.7% of the population, but, unlike EVERY
atheist tyranny, such minority beliefs are tolerated as part of
universal Human Rights, DENIED in EVERY atheist state!!

Why do you you atheists ALWAYS crush minorities and suppress human
rights EVERY TIME you seize power?
Post by Seon Ferguson
but the religious right took over.
Now the religious majority has crushed the right and installed a
MODERATE, intelligent, black BELIEVER...

and the rights of atheists are still protected.. why do you atheist
hypocrites support atheist regimes which ALWAYS deny such basic rights..?

Why do you prefer to live among civilised MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies,
rather than totalitarian shitholes where atheist TYRANTS rule???

That is, why don't you fuck off yo the PARADISE which you all always
claim will result when Religion is ELIMINATED, but never DOES HAPPEN..

I will pay for your tickets to Nth Korea, so you can WAKE THE FUCK UP
about the endless SHITDRIBBLE you spout in Usenet!!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Your 'argument' really can't get any weaker.
If you seriously prefer atheist shitholes why don't you fuck offf
to North Korea...
That is not an atheist shithole. It is a communist shit hole.
Nothing has changed among the Holocaust Deniers:

EVERY PARTY MEMBER OF THE SOVIET RULING PARTY WAS AN ATHEIST!!!!

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
Post by Seon Ferguson
None of
the things the dictator did were in the name of Atheism.
The Nazi's Final Solution was not announced "IN THE NAME OF NAZISM"
either, you immoral shitpig.. but it was REAL and Committed by Nazis!

You on the other hand choose to believe what terrorists SAY! pffft

What a complete fuckwit!

THE ATHEIST UNION OF SAVAGE SLAUGHTER AND REPRESSION - USSR's terror
torture and murder of 20,000,000 which WAS ANNOUNCED AS SPECIFIC
ATHEIST POLICY by the ATHEIST In CHARGE! And implemented by an
All-Atheist Party!


Suck it UP, you morally defective apologist for the atheist holocaust!
Post by Seon Ferguson
The fact that you don't means that, LIKE ALL ATHEISTS, you prefer
to live as a TINY MINORITY in religious societies, than anywhere
where atheism rules!!!!
I'm not an athist
You are an apologist for atheist crimes, an atheist holocaust denier.

You are FAR MORE COMPLICIT than the 1.8 Billion Muslims YOU blame
for terrorist acts by a tiny minority who are REPUDIATED by the
majority of Muslims.

The Majority of atheists, like you, DENY AND DEFEND the Atheist
Crimes against humanity...

The Islamic council of Australia denounces Terror.

Everyone can see the difference!
Post by Seon Ferguson
but religion has oppressed humanity.
You never have any facts to support your lies.

The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration
and sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)

There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.

- Galileo Galilei 1615.

..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954

The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it

- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher

The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven

- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642

I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world

- Louis Pasteur 1822-95

As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.

- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727

The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.

- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918

There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.

- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918

"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington

Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.

- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)

John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)

Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)

Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)

Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)

Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.

Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)

Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)

Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)

Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)

Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)



Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)

Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)


"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein

"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28

"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)


Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;

Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.

Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.

William Turner the "father of English botany"

John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.

Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,

Galileo Galilei

René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.

Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).

Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology

Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.

John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.


Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine

Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.

Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society

Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.

Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.

Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,

Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician

Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday

Charles Babbage

Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"

Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.

Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.


Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,

Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials

Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry

John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.

Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics

Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,

Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.

Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest

Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science

von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.

Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.

Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.

John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.

Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.

Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize

Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.

John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.

Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.

Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.

Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.


And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists

Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist nation has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist
SHITHOLE!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
He has abandoned the field, run off by the weight of EVIDENCE! B^)
Post by Seon Ferguson
But it used to be the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth was round when
everyone was saying it was flat.

It was Christians (Galileao, Kepler) who showed IGNORANT
humanity the way!! B^D

It was Muslims who gave you Algebra, Hospitals and Surgical instruments
still in use today..

How come Religion always leads mankind forward, not atheism,
which only produces TOTALITARIAN SHITHOLES!!

It's a 100% correlation: Atheist Regimes = Tyranny
Post by Seon Ferguson
It used to be the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth revolved
around the sun while the majority thought it was the other way round.
Originally that minority was TWO (count them, 2) CHRISTIANS.. B^D

Galileao and Kepler. (Yes Yes you whining hypocrites, the Church
persecuted Galileao, but he remained focused on God and Truth,
not organisations dedicated to their own power.. and so
GALILEAO WON ;-)

Now.. where were the atheists?? 8^o

None had the idea, None even supported Galileao when HE DID!
Are they all GUTLESS COWARDS? or MORE
IGNORANT than these ground breaking Theist scientists!? B^D

..or were they simply IRRELEVANT and ALMOST NON-EXISTENT,
like they are now!?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Don't you get it?
I have always got it. Read Brecht for a powerful
re-construction of the the Church's persecution of
Galileao.

You just misunderstand because you confuse religion
and the spiritual teachings it is based upon.

I can put on a priest's costume , like Atheists at a gay
Mardi Gras, and fuck you up the arse..

You would blame religion, I would say "is it in accord
with the teaching of religion"? No, then it's not religion,
it's some evil fuck PRETENDING, wanting to blame SOMEONE
or SOMETHING else, rather than himself, and you are so lacking
in intelligence and judgement that you simply BELIEVE whatever
any criminal tells you.. you are seriously fucked in more ways than
one! !! B^D
Post by Seon Ferguson
Just because everyone believes something is true
doesn't make it true.
You believe 16 blokes with boxcutters who bitchslapped
the worlds superpower in resentment and anger at a range of
political and cultural humiliations, when they say "we act
in the name of Islam"!!! How fucking idiotic are YOU!???

And yet you deny that atheism is responsible when an ATHEIST
Regime, led by an atheist leader of a party of Atheists
implement Atheist policy, killing and torturing religious,
stealing their porperty and subjecting Children to
Forced indoctrination in Atheist ideology in school, and adults
in Gulags, camps and the NKVD dungeons!!

How fuckng HYPOCRITICAL ARE YOU??
Post by Seon Ferguson
I wish I could heighlight that to empthasise it.
Oh, I think you have emphasised your idiocy and hypocrisy quite well

But i doubt anyone but atheists empathise with you!
Post by Seon Ferguson
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
Game Set Match!
Post by fasgnadh
and the centuries of oppression and suffering.
What 'centuries of oppression and suffering'??
The burning times, the crusades, the spanish Inquisision, torturing
people, burning heratics at the stake, you can't be that dense can you?
Oh you mean back in the Dark Ages, the pre-literate era of humanity?
Before Islam, the Reformation, and the flowering of Judeao/Christian
Islamic Civilisation?


And how does the death toll for your medieval complaints stack up
to the recent Atheist death toll.

Inquisiiton.. 20,000?

Witch burnings.. 2,000

All centuries ago.. and yet, in living memory, we have
40,000,000 dead from the atheist holocausts..

i think the historical evidence is Clear..

Religions have progressed, athesim regressed and no matter
how you look at it, the suffering and death under EVERY
atheist regime is far greater than than under a few, atypical,
religious societies.

That explains why people, including atheists, choose to live in
MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies, like Australia, the USA Europe
India, Indonesia, than in Athsit regimes, USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots
Cambodia and Nth Korea.
Post by Seon Ferguson
All of us alive now can remember the 20,000,000
killed by the Soviet Union and the 20,000,000 killed in
Mao's China both ATHEIST REGIMES.
How can you compare that to life in a modern democratic
society based on religion and spiritual teaching such as
the USA, Australia, Europe!?
The founding fathers despised Christianity but they put in relligious
freedom in the consitution because they believed religioun gave us morals.

They seem to have been correct, when you compare it to the recent
Atheist experiments which all ended in terror, torture and death, human
misery on an UNPRECEDENTED scale!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Australia well I am not forced to go to church like you
No one is forced to go to church!

"There must be no compulsion in religion"

You are confusing modern, mainly religious societies with recent
Atheist tyrannies!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the Christian democrats would want.
Prposterous.. Show evidence for your claim that I,
or Christian Democrats, want to force people to attend church!

Why do you have to constantly resort to LIES and unfounded
opinions!????
Post by Seon Ferguson
Society needs to be secular.
Oh so it's YOU that wants to impose what YOU believe is 'necessary'

No surprises then that you are an apologist for Lenin, who DID what
you advocate!

Fucking TYRANTS!

Society needs to be FREE. The government needs to respect ALL
religious views, anti religious views and don't know or don't care -
theism, atheism and agnosticism.

Which is what we have, created by a predominately RELIGIOUS
society, with Legal RIGHTS for athesits and agnostics
guaranteed!! What a contrast with EVERY atheist regime!!! B^[
Post by Seon Ferguson
The government needs to be neautral.
That is a direct contradiction of your claim that society
needs to be secular.

A majority religious society can have a President who prays,
and can have hymns and prayers at ANZAC ceremonies, and
prayers in parliament, but still recognises the rights of the
tiny atheist minority not to take part, just as a majority
hetero society can celebrate and support childbirth and rearing,
but does not try and make homosexuals have sex with the opposite
gender.

You don't seem to understand the BALANCE, which is why you
always take such idiotically extremist positions;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Otherwise you turn out like a religious shithole like Saudi barbaria.
Not typical of Islam, though is it! B^)

Vastly outnumbered by Indonesian Muslims.

Whereas EVERY ATHEIST REGIME has been WORSE than the worst,
ATYPICAL Muslim nation you could cite!! B^D

EVERY ONE.. that's 100% of atheist regimes!! 8^o

You seem to be too dumb to understand what that means!
Post by Seon Ferguson
You just look silly.
Post by fasgnadh
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done
in the name of communism.
Post by Seon Ferguson
They were ATHEIST regimes.. the only ones in history!!! B^]
They said they were communist regimes.
Sure, the Nazis said they were Deutchland, but they were STILL NAZIS!

Every member of the Ruling communist party WAS AN ATHEIST, their
Leader, Lenin, who initiated the atheist Red Terror was an atheist,
they implemented explicitly atheist politicies, the Founder of communism
was an atheist.. so explain, WHY Do YOU THINK THAT BEING COMMUNISTS
MAKES THEM NOT ATHEISTS????

Now, you are clearly an ignorant fuckwit who can't claim to speak for a
significant body of atheists.. this bloke can:

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin


Prove him wrong.

The historical evidence shows you are an idiot.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Nothing to do with atheism.
http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html
Post by Seon Ferguson
Give me one quote where any of the oppression
had to do with Atheism
You have been snipping them and pretending they don't exist
for ages! B^D

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

http://www.tomandang.com/blog/images/headUpArse.jpg
Post by Seon Ferguson
and nothing to do with communism.
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
Post by Seon Ferguson
EVERY atheist regime was a bloody TYRANNY, and their people
could NOT WAIT till they were assigned to the dustbin of history and
religion once more permitted!
Post by Seon Ferguson
So was every Christian regime.
Bullshit.

You are simply a cheap bare faced liar!

Every atheist state has been a tyranny..

No one has ever presented an atheist state which was not a tyranny.

Most majority religious nations, are, like Australia, open,
democratic, tolerant and protective of human rights.

Not ONE Atheist nation has been!!

Put up or shut up, you pathetic LIAR!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Look at what Bush did in the last 8 years.
The same MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nation, tossed out the republicans
and elected a MODERATE believer.

Suck it up! The problem may be democracy, the solution has
been to elect a GENUINE believer, not a political fraud! B0

Now, tell us one atheist state where theists can EVEN STAND
for office, rather than be killed for their faith???


You ignore the facts and blather bullshit;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist!
They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D
It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone..
(i care not a fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in
contrast to the latest Divine Revelation which was
launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith
and a renewed new revelation, because ALL of
history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era,
the choice, if you want civilisation, is still
which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the
20th Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical
world was said to be completely un-xian but
torturing and burning anyone who believed such was entirely
xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared
to the 40,000,000 killed by atheists in the
'modern'(sic) era???
What? NO ANSWER FROM SEON THE LIGHTWEIGHT?!!!!?
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN
Christianity for Dark Deeds in the
Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and
of each other') when I say simply 'atheism is
historically a Tyranny, in EVERY case of atheist regimes,
and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern
Church responsible for ancient misdeeds,
dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from
insignificance in history, to 20th century
mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness
and the church was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Seon cannot deal with reality.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who
has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect
has intended us to forego their use and by some other means
to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
experience or necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly
imbued with the aspiration toward truth
and understanding. This source of feeling, however,
springs from the sphere of Religion... science without
religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand
even though we are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are
marvellously discerned in all His works and divinely
read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no
idea of the manner by which the All-Wise
God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us,
of why and how an old song can move us to tears..
.. Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
Apart from Newton, Galileao, Kepler, Pasteur, Pascal, Kelvin, Fleming,
Planck, Euler, Boyle, Leibnitz, Babbage, Mendel.. et al
BWAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA


"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"

The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]

Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it
inflicted five brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised
and murdered tens of millions, before being
re-assigned to the dustbin of history!

And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA

Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
--
"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.

If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?

Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.

Something else is."

- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape
Aggie
2009-04-27 20:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
If you can't debate me when I'm talking to you, you weak prick,
why don't you try whining like a little bitch to someone else!
fasgnadh at his most charitable.
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-27 23:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Aggie
Post by fasgnadh
If you can't debate me when I'm talking to you, you weak prick,
why don't you try whining like a little bitch to someone else!
fasgnadh at his most charitable.
Oh well at least now I know he's some light weight who will run away when
asked for evidence.
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-27 23:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Professor Robert Pape, the foremost international expert
Post by fasgnadh
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
Fags will probably say the US government or something.
If you can't debate me when I'm talking to you, you weak prick,
why don't you try whining like a little bitch to someone else! B^D
That way you can lie you stupid head off! B^]
In other words there is no evidence.
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 11:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in
the 1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes
of the church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D
That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!
Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY BEYOND
all you atheist moral defectives;
That still doesn't justify the barbaric crimes of the church
You are the only one claiming that it does. B^p
I have NEVER denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument left!
Your kidding right?
No. I have never denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. If i had, you could quote me doing it.. you can't
because YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument left!
Here's proof that you have no argument left, this is known as
Begging the Question.
"Since you are a lying Pig Fucker..." would simply ASSUME, not prove,
that to be true;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Since religion has been responsible
Since when? Where's the evidence? You have NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.

The only 'facts' you present are SEVEN CENTURIES OLD!! B^D

Are you trying to PROVE that religion has progressed, while
atheism, which KILLED 40,000,000 IN LIVING MEMORY, has REGRESSED?

Nice job, although it appears to have been unintentional on your part!
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
for the suffering of humanity
So you are arguing that the BILLIONS of believers of the planet
who live peaceful lives, raising their families, quietly worshipping,
running charities and schools are creating more suffering than the
Atheist regimes which tortured and terrorised 40,000,000 people in
last century ALONE!??
I have posted the detiled death tolls from atheist regimes..
where is YOUR evidence...
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Oh.. that's right, you IRRATIONAL athesits with NO ARGUMENT, NEVER
HAVE ANY .. that's why you go back to the Dark Ages to drag out
examples FROM THE TIME OF MEDIEVAL BARBARISM, which you think supports
your cause.
Post by Seon Ferguson
and it is sill is
Nope.. Wilberforce (Christian) abolished Slavery, Tahireh(Bahai)
declared the Emancipation of Women, half a century before the
Sufragettes in Europe, Islam gave us the Hospice and surgical
instruments still in use.. Hinduism delivered us the Zero..
and Atheism IS one big ZERO!
B^]
Because you have no argument you keep inventing Straw Man
Arguments and posturing angrily as you debate YOURSELF;
Post by Seon Ferguson
why should I join whatever religion you belong to?
Who asked you to? B^)

You just have serial Hissy Fits when your last bullshit is mocked,
and you try an distract from every failure with new bullshit!
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
It is still responsible for suffering to this day.
"whatever religion I belong to" is responsible for
suffering to this Day?
How can you make such a claim when a) you don't know if I belong to
a religion, let alone which it might be, and b) you have no evidence
of anything like the 40,000,000 death toll from just TWO atheist regimes!


So, here you go. Pretend I am one of these religions and tell
me how many deaths in the past century it is responsible for.

If you can't, then admit defeat, and possibly investgate each one
as cantidates for True Faith;
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
1. Quakers.
2. Amish.
3. Bahai.
4. Buddhist.
You can't even show that any of those are responsible for even as many
deaths as that atheist Pol Pots Year Zero Genocide, rterrorising and
killing millions.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Look at 911 and the terrorist attacks commited by Muslims for "Allah"
200,000,000 Indonesian Muslims caught tried and executed a handful
of Islamofascist terrorists. How can you claim that Islam is the cause,
when Muslims were the MAIN VICTIMS **AND** chiefly responsible for
OPPOSING IT.
Are you seriously claiming that if 200,000,000 Muslims are attacked
by a handful of Islamofascist psychopaths acting on POLITICAL motives
and in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to the Qur'an, that you choose to hold the
latter as representing Islam, not the former? 8^o
In my view such support of the terrorists is Islamophobic CLAPTRAP,
and you BELONG with the fundies responsible as you have chosen to
believe THEM, and not the VAST MAJORITY of peaceful Muslims, who are
the main VICTIMS of terror.
Moreover, how can you then excuse ANY atheists when EVERY ATHEIST
REGIME.. that is the WHOLE NATION, has been a totalitarian TYRANNY!!!
It seems you are quite illogical and irrational, arguing from PREJUDICE.
Are you familiar with Professor Robert Pape?
"Mohammed Khan the ringleader of the London bombings of 7/7
declared clearly in his martyrdom video that his central
motive was "to punish Britain for atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan,
and other Muslim nations"
Seems pretty clear why they acted, retaliation for Iraq.

Nothing to do with Islam.


As they said;
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Hussein Osma, July 21 would-be bomber said in his interrogation;
'This was not about religion, this was about Iraq, we watched
videos of western military atrocities in Iraq'" - Pape, "Dying to Win"
ABC and Seon should read more and fabricate bullshit less.
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Prof Robert Pape, a distinguished academic whose work has been
funded by the Pentagon, and whose views are so respected
by the US Military that he taught at Dartmouth and 'air power
strategy' at the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower Studies,
conducted the ONLY study of the MOTIVATION of suicide bombers,
and thus he doesn't GUESS like Bush did, he UNDERSTANDS
what THE BOMBERS say are their reasons!!!
"The evidence shows that the presence of American troops
is clearly the pivotal factor driving suicide terrorism."
"A study by University of Chicago political scientist
Robert Pape of 462 suicide-terrorist attacks between
1980 and 2004 worldwide found the overwhelming reason
for the attacks was a clear political objective and
in more than 95 per cent of the cases the "central
objective" was the eviction of foreign troops.
"Before our invasion, Iraq never had a suicide-terrorist
attack in its history. Never. Since our invasion,
suicide terrorism has been escalating rapidly with 20
attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004, and over 50 in just the
first five months of 2005. Every year that the United
States has stationed 150,000 combat troops in Iraq,
suicide terrorism has doubled."
The Bush administration knows this, but avoids the truth;
http://youtu.be/J1bm2GPoFfg
"Robert A. Pape is Professor of Political Science at the University of
Chicago specializing in international security affairs. His publications
include Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (Random
House 2005); Bombing to Win: Air Power and Coercion in War (Cornell
1996), "Why Economic Sanctions Do Not Work," International Security
(1997), "The Determinants of International Moral Action," International
Organization (1999); "The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,"
American Political Science Review (2003); and "Soft Balancing against
the United States," International Security (2005). His commentary on
international security policy has appeared in The New York Times,
Washington Post, New Republic, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, as well as on Nightline, ABC News, CBS
News, CNN, Fox News, and National Public Radio. Before coming to Chicago
in 1999, he taught international relations at Dartmouth College for five
years and air power strategy for the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower
Studies for three years. He received his Ph. D. from the University of
Chicago in 1988 and graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from
the University of Pittsburgh in 1982. His current work focuses on the
causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity."
http://political-science.uchicago.edu/faculty/pape.html
"Robert Pape graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the
University of Pittsburgh in 1982 and earned his Ph.D. from the
University of Chicago in 1988. During his Ph.D. program he was a TA for
a class taught by John Mearsheimer. He taught international relations at
Dartmouth College from 1991 to 1996 and air power strategy at the United
States Air Force's School of Advanced Airpower Studies from 1996 to
1999. Since 1999 he has taught at the University of Chicago, where he is
Associate Professor of Political Science. He defines the focus of his
current work as "the effect of technological change on conflict and
cooperation among major powers and the theory and practice of suicide
terrorism."
After presenting preliminary data on his research into suicide terrorism
in the American Political Science Review in 2003, Pape founded the
Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, which he directs. The project is
funded by the Carnegie Corporation, the Pentagon's Defense Threat
Reduction Agency, the University of Chicago, and the Argonne National
Laboratory." - wikipedia
Post by Seon Ferguson
look at Israel.
The creation of Political state by Europeans GUILTY over the Nazi
PERSECUTION of a RELIGION, imposing their solution by APPROPRIATING
Palestinian land!?
Palestinians are Christian AND Muslim, many Zionists were not even
religious.. the problem is a POLITICAL one, as is made clear when
you consider the centuries in which Jews, Muslims and Christians
co-existed poeacefully, as they do in Australia right now!!! B^]
You are trying to substitute propaganda for rational argument.
Very weak, intellectually fraudulent and lacking in integrity.
Post by Seon Ferguson
If there was no religion the Jews would not have
a reason to reinvade it.
They always had religion, they never re-invaded.. thus Religion is
not the CAUSE.
The imposition of Israel on the Palestinians was by Europeans,
acting out of Guilt over yet another Pogrom persecuting Religious,
it was a POLITICAL cause, and the Zionist state and Hamas
both USE religion to gain support in their POLITICAL STRUGGLE.
Arabs and Jews live peacefully in other POLITICAL CONTEXTS
around the world.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Maybe the Zionists will but they couldn't claim
God told them to.
Zionism is a political movement, not a religion.
You are the one who is on record claiming the 40,000,000
dead in atheist regimes is not the fault of atheists, because they
are also communists.. are you sure you wish to persist with such hypocrisy?
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
All you have to do now is prove that terrorism is a natural
and INSEPERABLE part of theism..
Hard to do when most religious societies are NOT terrorist,
but ALL atheist regimes have been.
Off you go Sonny Jim, your arse has been kicked ..again!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
What people Can witness with their own eyes is that you deny the
crimes of the Athesit regimes, much greater and in the 'MODERN' era!
What about Saudi Arabia?
It's not an atheist regime you are denying. So you concede my point.
It is a vile Theocracy. I, because I am consistent, denounce it,
and i note while doing so that it is NOT TYPICAL of Islam.
Indonesia, the worlds largest Muslim nation, is.
We all note your hypocrisy, you SELECTIVELY choose the LEAST
representative but WORST example of Islam in an attempt to
distract from the now proven accusation that you defend atheism,
where EVERY Atheist regime has been a totalitarian TYRANNY.
Your hypocrisy is well established.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And the other Muslim regemes that are opressing
women and stoning people for withcrcaft, for being gay or for
converting from Islam?
1,800,000,000 Muslims, how many individual crimes have you documented.
On your kind of RABID LUNATIC ILLOGIC, *Men* are Guilty of everything
and should be denounced!
Your PREJUDICE is based on just such a simple category error.
The Nazis built their tyranny on such propaganda tools,
they found a Jewish rapist and saturated the public
discourse with the term Jewish Rapist, creating a bogus
and deadly Collective Responsibility.
That is what you are doing to MILLIONS of innocent Muslims,
while you are a Holocaust denier when it comes to the
ATHEIST holocausts on a far more vast scale.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Those regemes are COMMUNIST they were not done in the name
of Atheism.
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
Nazi Criminals were not as forthcoming as the Atheist who
INITIATED the Red Terror.. they never said "We are going
to slaughter Jews" they just did it.
What you are doing is IGNORING the deaths of 40,000,000
victims of EXPLICITLY ATHEIST REGIMES, TARGETTING PRIESTS,
CHURCHES NAD RELIGION, and trying to pretend it wan't done
by atheists.. when Lenin shows you are wrong in claiming
"it wasn't done in the name of atheism" .. which would
be a PISS WEAK attempt to excuse atheist regimes anyway!!! 8^o
Then, when 16 in 1,800,000,000 Muslims commits a crime killing
3,000 people, including Muslims, you take the CRIMINALS claim
that they 'do it in the name of Islam' and SIMPLY SWALLOW IT 8^o
So you can blame the 1,800,000,000 INNOCENT Muslims, including
the VICTIMS of the trerrorist act!!!?!!?
WHAT KIND OF HATE FILLED FUCKING BIGOT ARE YOU????
And, the final straw in your IRRATIONAL HATRED, the terrorist
acts are EXPLICITLY condemmned in the Qur'an!
Where dose atheist ideology explicity oppose the terror and
slaughter of the atheist regimes???
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Atheists demonstrate that communist tyranny is Still
'in the name of atheism' to this day! (YOUR weak apologia, NOT MINE!)
Atheist Holocaust deniers still celebrate mass murdering atheist tyrants;
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8294?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8293?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8292?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8291?context=latest
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
Atheist Communists
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8297?context=latest
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/photo/search?q=che
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=9#
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=8
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo?page=467
http://www.atheistnexus.org/photo/2182797:Photo:8290?context=latest
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Rred Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.'
Post by Seon Ferguson
How many times do I have to explain this to you?
Repeating your lies does not improve their veracity.
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg
#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
Why do atheist regimes ALWAYS murder and terrorise religious,
while MOST religious societies allow atheist minorities their
human rights?
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
In the Dark Ages, illiteracy, ignorance and brutality were the NORM,
in the 20th century they were the NORM in atheist societies, but not
in tolerant, moderate religious democractic societies (eg USA Australia)
Australia is a secular society. USA was originally a secular one as well
Both have religious majorities..
Atheism in the USA is a mere 0.7% of the population, but, unlike EVERY
atheist tyranny, such minority beliefs are tolerated as part of
universal Human Rights, DENIED in EVERY atheist state!!
Why do you you atheists ALWAYS crush minorities and suppress human
rights EVERY TIME you seize power?
Post by Seon Ferguson
but the religious right took over.
Now the religious majority has crushed the right and installed a
MODERATE, intelligent, black BELIEVER...
and the rights of atheists are still protected.. why do you atheist
hypocrites support atheist regimes which ALWAYS deny such basic rights..?
Why do you prefer to live among civilised MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies,
rather than totalitarian shitholes where atheist TYRANTS rule???
That is, why don't you fuck off yo the PARADISE which you all always
claim will result when Religion is ELIMINATED, but never DOES HAPPEN..
I will pay for your tickets to Nth Korea, so you can WAKE THE FUCK UP
about the endless SHITDRIBBLE you spout in Usenet!!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Your 'argument' really can't get any weaker.
If you seriously prefer atheist shitholes why don't you fuck offf
to North Korea...
That is not an atheist shithole. It is a communist shit hole.
EVERY PARTY MEMBER OF THE SOVIET RULING PARTY WAS AN ATHEIST!!!!
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
Post by Seon Ferguson
None of
the things the dictator did were in the name of Atheism.
The Nazi's Final Solution was not announced "IN THE NAME OF NAZISM"
either, you immoral shitpig.. but it was REAL and Committed by Nazis!
You on the other hand choose to believe what terrorists SAY! pffft
What a complete fuckwit!
THE ATHEIST UNION OF SAVAGE SLAUGHTER AND REPRESSION - USSR's terror
torture and murder of 20,000,000 which WAS ANNOUNCED AS SPECIFIC
ATHEIST POLICY by the ATHEIST In CHARGE! And implemented by an
All-Atheist Party!
Suck it UP, you morally defective apologist for the atheist holocaust!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
The fact that you don't means that, LIKE ALL ATHEISTS, you prefer
to live as a TINY MINORITY in religious societies, than anywhere
where atheism rules!!!!
I'm not an athist
You are an apologist for atheist crimes, an atheist holocaust denier.
You are FAR MORE COMPLICIT than the 1.8 Billion Muslims YOU blame
for terrorist acts by a tiny minority who are REPUDIATED by the
majority of Muslims.
The Majority of atheists, like you, DENY AND DEFEND the Atheist
Crimes against humanity...
The Islamic council of Australia denounces Terror.
Everyone can see the difference!
Post by Seon Ferguson
but religion has oppressed humanity.
You never have any facts to support your lies.
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration
and sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.
- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington
Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.
- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)
George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)
Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)
John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)
Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)
Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)
Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)
Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.
Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)
Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)
Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)
Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)
Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein
"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist nation has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist
SHITHOLE!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
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Post by fasgnadh
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
He has abandoned the field, run off by the weight of EVIDENCE! B^)
Post by Seon Ferguson
But it used to be the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth was round when
everyone was saying it was flat.
It was Christians (Galileao, Kepler) who showed IGNORANT
humanity the way!! B^D
It was Muslims who gave you Algebra, Hospitals and Surgical instruments
still in use today..
How come Religion always leads mankind forward, not atheism,
which only produces TOTALITARIAN SHITHOLES!!
It's a 100% correlation: Atheist Regimes = Tyranny
Post by Seon Ferguson
It used to be the TINY MINORITY thought the Earth revolved
around the sun while the majority thought it was the other way round.
Originally that minority was TWO (count them, 2) CHRISTIANS.. B^D
Galileao and Kepler. (Yes Yes you whining hypocrites, the Church
persecuted Galileao, but he remained focused on God and Truth,
not organisations dedicated to their own power.. and so
GALILEAO WON ;-)
Now.. where were the atheists?? 8^o
None had the idea, None even supported Galileao when HE DID!
Are they all GUTLESS COWARDS? or MORE
IGNORANT than these ground breaking Theist scientists!? B^D
..or were they simply IRRELEVANT and ALMOST NON-EXISTENT,
like they are now!?
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
Post by Seon Ferguson
Don't you get it?
I have always got it. Read Brecht for a powerful
re-construction of the the Church's persecution of
Galileao.
You just misunderstand because you confuse religion
and the spiritual teachings it is based upon.
I can put on a priest's costume , like Atheists at a gay
Mardi Gras, and fuck you up the arse..
You would blame religion, I would say "is it in accord
with the teaching of religion"? No, then it's not religion,
it's some evil fuck PRETENDING, wanting to blame SOMEONE
or SOMETHING else, rather than himself, and you are so lacking
in intelligence and judgement that you simply BELIEVE whatever
any criminal tells you.. you are seriously fucked in more ways than
one! !! B^D
Post by Seon Ferguson
Just because everyone believes something is true
doesn't make it true.
You believe 16 blokes with boxcutters who bitchslapped
the worlds superpower in resentment and anger at a range of
political and cultural humiliations, when they say "we act
in the name of Islam"!!! How fucking idiotic are YOU!???
And yet you deny that atheism is responsible when an ATHEIST
Regime, led by an atheist leader of a party of Atheists
implement Atheist policy, killing and torturing religious,
stealing their porperty and subjecting Children to
Forced indoctrination in Atheist ideology in school, and adults
in Gulags, camps and the NKVD dungeons!!
How fuckng HYPOCRITICAL ARE YOU??
Post by Seon Ferguson
I wish I could heighlight that to empthasise it.
Oh, I think you have emphasised your idiocy and hypocrisy quite well
But i doubt anyone but atheists empathise with you!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAA
Game Set Match!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the centuries of oppression and suffering.
What 'centuries of oppression and suffering'??
The burning times, the crusades, the spanish Inquisision, torturing
people, burning heratics at the stake, you can't be that dense can you?
Oh you mean back in the Dark Ages, the pre-literate era of humanity?
Before Islam, the Reformation, and the flowering of Judeao/Christian
Islamic Civilisation?
And how does the death toll for your medieval complaints stack up
to the recent Atheist death toll.
Inquisiiton.. 20,000?
Witch burnings.. 2,000
All centuries ago.. and yet, in living memory, we have
40,000,000 dead from the atheist holocausts..
i think the historical evidence is Clear..
Religions have progressed, athesim regressed and no matter
how you look at it, the suffering and death under EVERY
atheist regime is far greater than than under a few, atypical,
religious societies.
That explains why people, including atheists, choose to live in
MAJORITY RELIGIOUS societies, like Australia, the USA Europe
India, Indonesia, than in Athsit regimes, USSR, Maoist China, Pol Pots
Cambodia and Nth Korea.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
All of us alive now can remember the 20,000,000
killed by the Soviet Union and the 20,000,000 killed in
Mao's China both ATHEIST REGIMES.
How can you compare that to life in a modern democratic
society based on religion and spiritual teaching such as
the USA, Australia, Europe!?
The founding fathers despised Christianity but they put in relligious
freedom in the consitution because they believed religioun gave us morals.
They seem to have been correct, when you compare it to the recent
Atheist experiments which all ended in terror, torture and death, human
misery on an UNPRECEDENTED scale!!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Australia well I am not forced to go to church like you
No one is forced to go to church!
"There must be no compulsion in religion"
You are confusing modern, mainly religious societies with recent
Atheist tyrannies!
Post by Seon Ferguson
and the Christian democrats would want.
Prposterous.. Show evidence for your claim that I,
or Christian Democrats, want to force people to attend church!
Why do you have to constantly resort to LIES and unfounded
opinions!????
Post by Seon Ferguson
Society needs to be secular.
Oh so it's YOU that wants to impose what YOU believe is 'necessary'
No surprises then that you are an apologist for Lenin, who DID what
you advocate!
Fucking TYRANTS!
Society needs to be FREE. The government needs to respect ALL
religious views, anti religious views and don't know or don't care -
theism, atheism and agnosticism.
Which is what we have, created by a predominately RELIGIOUS
society, with Legal RIGHTS for athesits and agnostics
guaranteed!! What a contrast with EVERY atheist regime!!! B^[
Post by Seon Ferguson
The government needs to be neautral.
That is a direct contradiction of your claim that society
needs to be secular.
A majority religious society can have a President who prays,
and can have hymns and prayers at ANZAC ceremonies, and
prayers in parliament, but still recognises the rights of the
tiny atheist minority not to take part, just as a majority
hetero society can celebrate and support childbirth and rearing,
but does not try and make homosexuals have sex with the opposite
gender.
You don't seem to understand the BALANCE, which is why you
always take such idiotically extremist positions;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Otherwise you turn out like a religious shithole like Saudi barbaria.
Not typical of Islam, though is it! B^)
Vastly outnumbered by Indonesian Muslims.
Whereas EVERY ATHEIST REGIME has been WORSE than the worst,
ATYPICAL Muslim nation you could cite!! B^D
EVERY ONE.. that's 100% of atheist regimes!! 8^o
You seem to be too dumb to understand what that means!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
You just look silly.
Post by Seon Ferguson
And before you bring up Communist regimes the oppression was done in
the name of communism.
They were ATHEIST regimes.. the only ones in history!!! B^]
They said they were communist regimes.
Sure, the Nazis said they were Deutchland, but they were STILL NAZIS!
Every member of the Ruling communist party WAS AN ATHEIST, their
Leader, Lenin, who initiated the atheist Red Terror was an atheist,
they implemented explicitly atheist politicies, the Founder of communism
was an atheist.. so explain, WHY Do YOU THINK THAT BEING COMMUNISTS
MAKES THEM NOT ATHEISTS????
Now, you are clearly an ignorant fuckwit who can't claim to speak for a
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
Prove him wrong.
The historical evidence shows you are an idiot.
Post by Seon Ferguson
Nothing to do with atheism.
http://www.geocities.com/townsville_taliban/endoscope.html
Post by Seon Ferguson
Give me one quote where any of the oppression
had to do with Atheism
You have been snipping them and pretending they don't exist
for ages! B^D
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://www.tomandang.com/blog/images/headUpArse.jpg
Post by Seon Ferguson
and nothing to do with communism.
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
http://data5.blog.de/media/481/2584481_bdc195fac4_m.jpeg
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
EVERY atheist regime was a bloody TYRANNY, and their people
could NOT WAIT till they were assigned to the dustbin of history and
religion once more permitted!
So was every Christian regime.
Bullshit.
You are simply a cheap bare faced liar!
Every atheist state has been a tyranny..
No one has ever presented an atheist state which was not a tyranny.
Most majority religious nations, are, like Australia, open,
democratic, tolerant and protective of human rights.
Not ONE Atheist nation has been!!
Put up or shut up, you pathetic LIAR!
Post by Seon Ferguson
Look at what Bush did in the last 8 years.
The same MAJORITY RELIGIOUS nation, tossed out the republicans
and elected a MODERATE believer.
Suck it up! The problem may be democracy, the solution has
been to elect a GENUINE believer, not a political fraud! B^0
Now, tell us one atheist state where theists can EVEN STAND
for office, rather than be killed for their faith???
You ignore the facts and blather bullshit;
Post by Seon Ferguson
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Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist!
They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D
It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone..
(i care not a fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in
contrast to the latest Divine Revelation which was
launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith
and a renewed new revelation, because ALL of
history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era,
the choice, if you want civilisation, is still
which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the
20th Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical
world was said to be completely un-xian but
torturing and burning anyone who believed such was entirely
xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared
to the 40,000,000 killed by atheists in the
'modern'(sic) era???
What? NO ANSWER FROM SEON THE LIGHTWEIGHT?!!!!?
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN
Christianity for Dark Deeds in the
Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and
of each other') when I say simply 'atheism is
historically a Tyranny, in EVERY case of atheist regimes,
and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern
Church responsible for ancient misdeeds,
dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from
insignificance in history, to 20th century
mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness
and the church was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
No answer from Seon the Lightweight? The Argument is settled.
Seon cannot deal with reality.
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who
has endowed us with senses, reason and intellect
has intended us to forego their use and by some other means
to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
experience or necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly
imbued with the aspiration toward truth
and understanding. This source of feeling, however,
springs from the sphere of Religion... science without
religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand
even though we are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are
marvellously discerned in all His works and divinely
read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no
idea of the manner by which the All-Wise
God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us,
of why and how an old song can move us to tears..
.. Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
Apart from Newton, Galileao, Kepler, Pasteur, Pascal, Kelvin, Fleming,
Planck, Euler, Boyle, Leibnitz, Babbage, Mendel.. et al
BWAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAAAA
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it
inflicted five brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised
and murdered tens of millions, before being
re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
By snipping all the quotation marks, and the attribution
and the context.. ABC posted the sig below as if it was not
talking about LEBANON in the 1980's and as if I was the author..

# ABC wrote:
# > In article <sLSIl.6462$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
# > fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
# >
# >> Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
# >
# > Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?


There is no limit to the deceit, lies and puerile fabrications
of intellectually dishonest atheist moral shitpigs;
--
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.
If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Something else is."
- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then?
16 blokes with $1-50 box cutters from Saudi Arabia,
(Not LEBANON, you deceitful atheist fraud) ..the
Saudi Tyranny which the USSA supports with weapons
which prop up the regime..

http://www.geocities.com/wmds_r_us/greased_palms

It was politically motivated.

And highly succesful.

You will note, the USSA did not attack the Saudis
(oil politics) they attacked the Taliban for
harbouring Al Qaida, islamofascists led by a
Saudi who hates the Saudi tyranny almost as much as he
hates the USSA for supporting them..

it's all politics, and NOTHING to do with Islam..

The proof is that the islamofascists kill more Muslims than westerners!

Look at the current targets of the Taliban... Pakistan, a Muslim
nation.

Pretend Muslims liek Kangarooted pose as Muslims to discredit them,
but he's a socailist, Malcolm Fabian, who poses as a Muslim but is
really a Taliban supporter and quite happy for them to murder Muslims
to get control of The Swat Valley.

It's politics.

Just liek WWI and WWII might have involved Christians fighting
Christians, but the war wasn't over religion..

I'm surprised you atheists need all this explained to you..
have you had your heads up your arse for the whole of the
Iraq invasion.. or have you worked out that it had NOTHING
to do with Islam, or Islam vrs Christianity, it wasn't even about
Al Qaida... there were none in Iraq till the US invaded and created
the chaos that gave them a foothold.
a foothold
supporter
Post by ABC
Buddhists?
According to you atheist fuckwits they are atheists, historically
atheists are the most violent and barbaric terroristds in history..
far outstripping the Taliban and Al Qaida, but just as dogmatic and
fundamentalist! B^]
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-26 11:49:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
According to you atheist fuckwits they are atheists, historically
atheists are the most violent and barbaric terroristds in history..
far outstripping the Taliban and Al Qaida, but just as dogmatic and
fundamentalist! B^]
I am still waiting for evidence that God exists and evidence that any
religion is true.
KStahl
2009-04-30 11:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
It was a bunch of anti-social nut jobs. No different then any other
terrorist. Their religion was just coincidental. Sure, it was a common
link, but no different then the common link they had with other groups
in that they had two arms, two legs, red blood, a head, scrotum, etc.
fasgnadh
2009-04-30 12:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by KStahl
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.
If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Something else is."
- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
The 9-11 thing wasn't in Lebanon, cretin.

"If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?"

Learn to READ, rather than snip the critical evidence and you won't look
quite so stupid.
Post by KStahl
It was a bunch of anti-social nut jobs. No different then any other
terrorist. Their religion was just coincidental. Sure, it was a common
link, but no different then the common link they had with other groups
in that they had two arms, two legs, red blood, a head, scrotum, etc.
"of 41 suicide attackers from Hezbollah 1982- 1986,
only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists.
Three were Christians, one of which was a Christian
high school teacher with a B.A."

Thus, more of those terrorists were ATHEISTS than were religious! 8^o

Professor Robert Pape replaces hysteria with cold hard research;
--
200,000,000 Indonesian Muslims caught tried and executed a handful
of Islamofascist terrorists. Clearly Islam is NOT the cause,
when Muslims were the MAIN VICTIMS **AND** chiefly responsible for
OPPOSING IT!!!

If 200,000,000 Muslims are attacked by a handful of Islamofascist
psychopaths acting on POLITICAL motives and in DIRECT CONTRADICTION to
the Qur'an, then it is irrational prejudice to hold the terrorosts as
representing Islam, not their Muslim Victims!!! 8^o

In my view such support of the terrorists is Islamophobic CLAPTRAP,
espoused by fundies who have chosen to believe THE TERRORISTS, and not
the VAST MAJORITY of peaceful Muslims, who arethe main VICTIMS of terror.

Moreover, how can you then excuse ANY atheists when EVERY ATHEIST
REGIME.. that is the WHOLE NATION, has been a totalitarian TYRANNY!!!

That would be quite illogical and irrational, arguing from PREJUDICE.

Prof Robert Pape, a distinguished academic whose work has been
funded by the Pentagon, and whose views are so respected
by the US Military that he taught at Dartmouth and 'air power
strategy' at the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower Studies,
conducted the ONLY study of the MOTIVATION of suicide bombers,
and thus he doesn't GUESS like Bush did, he UNDERSTANDS
what THE BOMBERS say are their reasons!!!

"Mohammed Khan the ringleader of the London bombings of 7/7
declared clearly in his martyrdom video that his central
motive was "to punish Britain for atrocities in Iraq, Afghanistan,
and other Muslim nations"

Hussein Osma, July 21 would-be bomber said in his interrogation;

'This was not about religion, this was about Iraq, we watched
videos of western military atrocities in Iraq'" - Pape, "Dying to Win"


"The evidence shows that the presence of American troops
is clearly the pivotal factor driving suicide terrorism."

"A study by University of Chicago political scientist
Robert Pape of 462 suicide-terrorist attacks between
1980 and 2004 worldwide found the overwhelming reason
for the attacks was a clear political objective and
in more than 95 per cent of the cases the "central
objective" was the eviction of foreign troops.

"Before our invasion, Iraq never had a suicide-terrorist
attack in its history. Never. Since our invasion,
suicide terrorism has been escalating rapidly with 20
attacks in 2003, 48 in 2004, and over 50 in just the
first five months of 2005. Every year that the United
States has stationed 150,000 combat troops in Iraq,
suicide terrorism has doubled."

The Bush administration knows this, but avoids the truth;

http://youtu.be/J1bm2GPoFfg

"Robert A. Pape is Professor of Political Science at the University of
Chicago specializing in international security affairs. His publications
include Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism (Random
House 2005); Bombing to Win: Air Power and Coercion in War (Cornell
1996), "Why Economic Sanctions Do Not Work," International Security
(1997), "The Determinants of International Moral Action," International
Organization (1999); "The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,"
American Political Science Review (2003); and "Soft Balancing against
the United States," International Security (2005). His commentary on
international security policy has appeared in The New York Times,
Washington Post, New Republic, Boston Globe, Los Angeles Times, and
Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, as well as on Nightline, ABC News, CBS
News, CNN, Fox News, and National Public Radio. Before coming to Chicago
in 1999, he taught international relations at Dartmouth College for five
years and air power strategy for the USAF's School of Advanced Airpower
Studies for three years. He received his Ph. D. from the University of
Chicago in 1988 and graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from
the University of Pittsburgh in 1982. His current work focuses on the
causes of suicide terrorism and the politics of unipolarity."

http://political-science.uchicago.edu/faculty/pape.html

"Robert Pape graduated summa cum laude and Phi Beta Kappa from the
University of Pittsburgh in 1982 and earned his Ph.D. from the
University of Chicago in 1988. During his Ph.D. program he was a TA for
a class taught by John Mearsheimer. He taught international relations at
Dartmouth College from 1991 to 1996 and air power strategy at the United
States Air Force's School of Advanced Airpower Studies from 1996 to
1999. Since 1999 he has taught at the University of Chicago, where he is
Associate Professor of Political Science. He defines the focus of his
current work as "the effect of technological change on conflict and
cooperation among major powers and the theory and practice of suicide
terrorism."

After presenting preliminary data on his research into suicide terrorism
in the American Political Science Review in 2003, Pape founded the
Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, which he directs. The project is
funded by the Carnegie Corporation, the Pentagon's Defense Threat
Reduction Agency, the University of Chicago, and the Argonne National
Laboratory." - wikipedia
KStahl
2009-05-01 01:07:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by KStahl
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
"In Lebanon in the 1980s, of 41 suicide attackers from
Hezbollah 1982- 1986, only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists. Three were Christians,
one of which was a Christian high school teacher with a B.A.
If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?
Clearly Islamic fundamentalism is not the root cause.
Something else is."
- "Dying To Win" Professor Robert Pape
Who was it who did the 9-11 thing, then? Buddhists?
The 9-11 thing wasn't in Lebanon, cretin.
"If RELIGION is the critical factor, how come we have three
Christian suicide bombers, and a majority of SECULAR suicide
bombers?"
Learn to READ, rather than snip the critical evidence and you won't look
quite so stupid.
Post by KStahl
It was a bunch of anti-social nut jobs. No different then any other
terrorist. Their religion was just coincidental. Sure, it was a common
link, but no different then the common link they had with other groups
in that they had two arms, two legs, red blood, a head, scrotum, etc.
"of 41 suicide attackers from Hezbollah 1982- 1986,
only eight were Islamic fundamentalists.
Twenty-seven were Communists and Socialists.
Three were Christians, one of which was a Christian
high school teacher with a B.A."
Thus, more of those terrorists were ATHEISTS than were religious! 8^o
Professor Robert Pape replaces hysteria with cold hard research;
Their religion is totally irrelevant - just like your asshole nature has
nothing to do with things that actually count as facts.
Seon Ferguson
2009-04-26 08:07:33 UTC
Permalink
This post is to long to reply to. I want to watch at the movies so your
lucky you get this.
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
You are the only one claiming that it does. B^p
I have NEVER denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument left!
Your kidding right?
No. I have never denied the inquisition, the Crusades and the witch
burning.. NEVER. If i had, you could quote me doing it.. you can't
because YOU made up the 'religious scum stand up for the
Barbaric crimes of the Church' lie because you have no real argument left!
Oh I think I missread you.
Post by fasgnadh
Here's proof that you have no argument left, this is known as
Begging the Question.
"Since you are a lying Pig Fucker..." would simply ASSUME, not prove,
that to be true;
Post by Seon Ferguson
Since religion has been responsible
Since when? Where's the evidence? You have NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT.
If there was no religion there would be no pope and the pope wouldn't have a
reason to retake the holly land or fool the masses. There would have been no
witch burnings and science might have evolved faster.
Post by fasgnadh
The only 'facts' you present are SEVEN CENTURIES OLD!! B^D
I guess the Holocaust is only 60 years old or so and we shouldn't care about
it.
Post by fasgnadh
Are you trying to PROVE that religion has progressed, while
atheism, which KILLED 40,000,000 IN LIVING MEMORY, has REGRESSED?
Nice job, although it appears to have been unintentional on your part!
Post by Seon Ferguson
for the suffering of humanity
So you are arguing that the BILLIONS of believers of the planet
who live peaceful lives, raising their families, quietly worshipping,
running charities and schools are creating more suffering than the
Atheist regimes which tortured and terrorised 40,000,000 people in
last century ALONE!??
No are you arguing that the peaceful atheists who just want to be left alone
are responsible for those COMMUNIST regimes and are some how criminal?


If there's anything else you really want me to answer send it with your next
reply.
george
2009-04-27 21:06:56 UTC
Permalink
In a word no!
Religions are responsible for all the mass murders and genocides.
Atheism doesn't 'hate' any sect to the extent that they try to
exterminate that group
Unlike the christian sect
the Atheist don't have a big invisible friend who will help them
murder their fellow man.
gawd did it is not an excuse.
fasgnadh
2009-04-27 22:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by george
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of
the church by saying they happened in the past.
Seon.. you poor hysterical dolt.. THEY DID occur in the past!!! B^)
1,300 A.D. IS THE PAST!! B^D
That is not 'standing up' for those events.. it's the PLAIN SIMPLE TRUTH!
Now, it's clear that plain simple truth is something CLEARLY BEYOND all
you atheist moral defectives;
Post by Seon Ferguson
If that is the truth
then we should stop sending former Nazi's to jail
All the illogic of a braindead atheist! They want everyone else to join
them in LYING about the past!!!! B^D
It is a FACT that events in 1300 A.D. ARE In the past, but why you
lunatics think that means Nazi's shouldn't go to jail (for crimes
which clearly have ben committed in LIVING MEMORY) is something we
will leave you blithering idiots to explain to everyone.. (i care not a
fig for your insane blather! ;-)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry for fresh air
after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in contrast to the latest
Divine Revelation which was launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith and a renewed new
revelation, because ALL of history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era, the choice, if you
want civilisation, is still which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists not the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the 20th
Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical world was said
to be completely un-xian but torturing and burning anyone who believed
such was entirely xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared to the
40,000,000
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
killed by atheists in the 'modern'(sic) era???
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN Christianity
for Dark Deeds in the Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and of each
other') when I say simply 'atheism is historically a Tyranny, in EVERY
case of atheist regimes, and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern Church responsible
for ancient misdeeds, dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from
insignificance in
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
history, to 20th century mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance!
B^)
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force in the history
of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration and
sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world
view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic
solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most
famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer, even when
persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years the Church
apologised! B^D
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal
Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the
Milne
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic
priest
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale
Prize
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research
Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness and the church
was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct
experience or
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without
religion
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the
world
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the
manner
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why
and how
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when
it is
Post by Seon Ferguson
Post by fasgnadh
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow
form a part, to which we belong.
The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The church still plays that role today condemning millions in Africa
to die for a doctrine by its teachings on contraception and condoms.
It's mistakes in no way match the deliberate slaughter by
historical atheism, killing over 40,000,000 people
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966) a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate,
professor of physics and astronomer at the Catholic University of
Leuven, proposed the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe,
from a modern rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it inflicted five
brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised and murdered tens of
millions, before being re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
In a word no!
From the atheists, NO facts, NO evidence, NO idea!
Post by george
Religions are responsible for all the mass murders and genocides.
#
# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia’s Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot’s regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg

#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

"You know, they are fooling us, there is no God...
all this talk about God is sheer nonsense" - Stalin
- E. Yaroslavsky, Landmarks in the Life of Stalin,
Foreign Languages Publishing House, Moscow 1940

But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
--
First, Lenin's Red Terror, Atheism in praxis;

# Russian Civil War (1917-22): 9 000 000 [make link]

* Eckhardt: 500,000 civ. + 300,000 mil. = 800,000
* Readers Companion to Military History, Cowley and Parker, eds.
(1996)
[http://college.hmco.com/history/readerscomp/mil/html/mh_045400_russiancivil.htm]:
o Combat deaths: 825,000
o Ancillary deaths: 2,000,000
o TOTAL: 2,825,000
* Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998)
o Civil War and Volga Famine (1918-22): 3,000,000 to 5,000,000
* Brzezinski, Z:
o 6 to 8 million people died under Lenin from war, famine etc.
* Mastering Twentieth Century Russian History by Norman Lowe (2002)
o TOTAL: 7,000,000 to 10,000,000
o Red Army
+ Battle: 632,000
+ Disease: 581,000
o Whites: 1,290,000 battle + disease
o White Terror: "tens of thousands"
o Red Terror
+ Executed: 50-200,000
+ Died in prison or killed in revolts: 400,000
o Typhoid + typhus
+ 1919: 890,000
+ 1920: >1M
* Urlanis:
o Military deaths: 800,000
+ Battle deaths, all sides: 300,000
+ Dead of wounds: 50,000
+ Disease: 450,000
o Civilians: 8,000,000
o TOTAL: 8,800,000
* Dyadkin, I.G. (cited in Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993)
o 9 million unnatural deaths from terror, famine and disease,
1918-23
* Richard Pipes, A concise history of the Russian Revolution
(1995): 9 million deaths, 1917-1922
o Famine: 5M
o Combat: 2M
+ Reds: 1M
+ Whites: 127,000
o Epidemics: 2M
o not incl.
+ Emigration: 2M
+ Birth deficit: 14M
* Rummel:
o Civil War (1917-22)
+ War: 1,410,000 (includes 500,000 civilian)
+ Famine: 5,000,000 (50% democidal)
+ Other democide: 784,000
+ Epidemics: 2,300,000
+ Total: 9,494,000
o Lenin's Regime (1917-24)
+ Rummel blames Lenin for a lifetime total of 4,017,000
democides.
* Figes, Orlando (A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian
Revolution, 1997)
o 10 million deaths from war, terror, famine and disease.
+ Including...
# Famine (1921-22): 5 million
# Killed in fighting, both military and civilian: 1M
# Jews killed in pogroms: 150,000
+ Not including...
# Demographic effects of a hugely reduced
birth-rate: 10M
# Emmigration: 2M
* McEvedy, Colin (Atlas of World Population History, 1978)
o War deaths: 2M
o Other excess deaths: 14M
o Reduced births: 10M
o Emmigration: 2M
* MEDIAN: Of these ten estimates that claim to be complete, the
median is 8.8M-9.0M.
* PARTIALS:
o Small & Singer (battle deaths, 1917-21)
+ Russian Civil War (Dec.1917-Oct.1920)
# Russians: 500,000
# Allied Intervention:
* Japan: 1,500
* UK: 350
* USA: 275
* France: 50
* Finland: 50
+ Russian Nationalities War (Dec.1917-Mar.1921)
# USSR: 50,000
o Bruce Lincoln, Red Victory: a History of the Russian Civil
War 1918-1921
+ Death sentences by the Cheka: ca. 100,000
+ Pogroms: as many as one in 13 Jews k. out of 1.5M in
Ukraine [i.e. ca. 115,000] (citing Heifetz)
o Nevins, citing Heifetz and the Red Cross: 120,000 Jews
killed in 1919 pogroms [http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html]
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): Cheka responsible for
maybe 250,000+ violent deaths.
o Paul Johnson
+ 50,000 death sentences imposed by the Cheka by 12/20
+ 100,000 Jews killed in 1919
o Green, Barbara (in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
+ 4 to 5 million deaths in the famine of 1921-23
o Max Boot, The Savage Wars of Peace
+ North Russia: 244 USAns d. incl. 144 k.battle
+ Siberia: 160 USAns KIA + 168 other d.
+ [US Total: 304 KIA + 268 other = 572 d.]
+ Czech Legion: 13,000 dead.

# Soviet Union, Stalin's regime (1924-53): 20 000 000 [make link]

* There are basically two schools of thought when it comes to the
number who died at Stalin's hands. There's the "Why doesn't anyone
realize that communism is the absolutely worst thing ever to hit the
human race, without exception, even worse than both world wars, the
slave trade and bubonic plague all put together?" school, and there's
the "Come on, stop exaggerating. The truth is horrifying enough without
you pulling numbers out of thin air" school. The two schools are
generally associated with the right and left wings of the political
spectrum, and they often accuse each other of being blinded by
prejudice, stubbornly refusing to admit the truth, and maybe even having
a hidden agenda. Also, both sides claim that recent access to former
Soviet archives has proven that their side is right.
* Here are a few illustrative estimates from the Big Numbers school:
o Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993 cites these:
+ Chistyakovoy, V. (Neva, no.10): 20 million killed
during the 1930s.
+ Dyadkin, I.G. (Demograficheskaya statistika
neyestestvennoy smertnosti v SSSR 1918-1956 ): 56 to 62 million
"unnatural deaths" for the USSR overall, with 34 to 49 million under Stalin.
+ Gold, John.: 50-60 million.
o Davies, Norman (Europe A History, 1998): c. 50 million
killed 1924-53, excluding WW2 war losses. This would divide (more or
less) into 33M pre-war and 17M after 1939.
o Rummel, 1990: 61,911,000 democides in the USSR 1917-87, of
which 51,755,000 occurred during the Stalin years. This divides up into:
+ 1923-29: 2,200,000 (plus 1M non-democidal famine deaths)
+ 1929-39: 15,785,000 (plus 2M non-democidal famine)
+ 1939-45: 18,157,000
+ 1946-54: 15,613,000 (plus 333,000 non-democidal famine)
+ TOTAL: 51,755,000 democides and 3,333,000 non-demo.
famine
o William Cockerham, Health and Social Change in Russia and
Eastern Europe: 50M+
o Wallechinsky: 13M (1930-32) + 7M (1934-38)
+ Cited by Wallechinsky:
# Medvedev, Roy (Let History Judge): 40 million.
# Solzhenitsyn, Aleksandr: 60 million.
o MEDIAN: 51 million for the entire Stalin Era; 20M during
the 1930s.
* And from the Lower Numbers school:
o Nove, Alec ("Victims of Stalinism: How Many?" in J. Arch
Getty (ed.) Stalinist Terror: New Perspectives, 1993): 9,500,000
"surplus deaths" during the 1930s.
o Cited in Nove:
+ Maksudov, S. (Poteri naseleniya SSSR, 1989): 9.8
million abnormal deaths between 1926 and 1937.
+ Tsaplin, V.V. ("Statistika zherty naseleniya v 30e
gody" 1989): 6,600,000 deaths (hunger, camps and prisons) between the
1926 and 1937 censuses.
+ Dugin, A. ("Stalinizm: legendy i fakty" 1989):
642,980 counterrevolutionaries shot 1921-53.
+ Muskovsky Novosti (4 March 1990): 786,098 state
prisoners shot, 1931-53.
o Gordon, A. (What Happened in That Time?, 1989, cited in
Adler, N., Victims of Soviet Terror, 1993): 8-9 million during the 1930s.
o Ponton, G. (The Soviet Era, 1994): cites an 1990 article by
Milne, et al., that excess deaths 1926-39 were likely 3.5 million and at
most 8 million.
o MEDIAN: 8.5 Million during the 1930s.
* As you can see, there's no easy compromise between the two
schools. The Big Numbers are so high that picking the midpoint between
the two schools would still give us a Big Number. It may appear to be a
rather pointless argument -- whether it's fifteen or fifty million, it's
still a huge number of killings -- but keep in mind that the population
of the Soviet Union was 164 million in 1937, so the upper estimates
accuse Stalin of killing nearly 1 out of every 3 of his people, an
extremely Polpotian level of savagery. The lower numbers, on the other
hand, leave Stalin with plenty of people still alive to fight off the
German invasion.
* [Letter]
* Although it's too early to be taking sides with absolute
certainty, a consensus seems to be forming around a death toll of 20
million. This would adequately account for all documented nastiness
without straining credulity:
o In The Great Terror (1969), Robert Conquest suggested that
the overall death toll was 20 million at minimum -- and very likely 50%
higher, or 30 million. This would divide roughly as follows: 7M in
1930-36; 3M in 1937-38; 10M in 1939-53. By the time he wrote The Great
Terror: A Re-assessment (1992), Conquest was much more confident that 20
million was the likeliest death toll.
o Britannica, "Stalinism": 20M died in camps, of famine,
executions, etc., citing Medvedev
o Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M
destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and
after WW2.
o Daniel Chirot:
+ "Lowest credible" estimate: 20M
+ "Highest": 40M
+ Citing:
# Conquest: 20M
# Antonov-Ovseyenko: 30M
# Medvedev: 40M
o Courtois, Stephane, Black Book of Communism (Le Livre Noir
du Communism): 20M for the whole history of Soviet Union, 1917-91.
+ Essay by Nicolas Werth: 15M
+ [Ironic observation: The Black Book of Communism
seems to vote for Hitler as the answer to the question of who's worse,
Hitler (25M) or Stalin (20M).]
o John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen (2001): 20M, incl.
+ Kulaks: 7M
+ Gulag: 12M
+ Purge: 1.2M (minus 50,000 survivors)
o Adam Hochschild, The Unquiet Ghost: Russians Remember
Stalin: directly responsible for 20 million deaths.
o Tina Rosenberg, The Haunted Land: Facing Europes Ghosts
After Communism (1995): upwards of 25M
o Time Magazine (13 April 1998): 15-20 million.
* AVERAGE: Of the 17 estimates of the total number of victims of
Stalin, the median is 30 million.
* Individual Gulags etc.
o Kolyma
o Kuropaty
o Vorkuta
o Bykivnia
* Famine, 1926-38
o Richard Overy, Russia's War (1997): 4.2M in Ukraine + 1.7M
in Kazakhstan
o Green, Barbara ("Stalinist Terror and the Question of
Genocide: the Great Famine" in Rosenbaum, Is the Holocaust Unique?)
cites these sources for the number who died in the famine:
+ Nove: 3.1-3.2M in Ukraine, 1933
+ Maksudov: 4.4M in Ukraine, 1927-38
+ Mace: 5-7M in Ukraine
+ Osokin: 3.35M in USSR, 1933
+ Wheatcraft: 4-5M in USSR, 1932-33
+ Conquest:
# Total, USSR, 1926-37: 11M
# 1932-33: 7M
# Ukraine: 5M

######################################################################
# Next, just to show it's a CONSISTENT PATTERN in EVERY ATHEIST REGIME,
#
# Mao's Cultural Devolution and Great Leap Backward!
#
######################################################################


# People's Republic of China, Mao Zedong's regime (1949-1975):

40 000 000

* Agence France Press (25 Sept. 1999) citing at length from
Courtois, Stephane, Le Livre Noir du Communism:
o Rural purges, 1946-49: 2-5M deaths
o Urban purges, 1950-57: 1M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-43M
o Cultural Revolution: 2-7M
o Labor Camps: 20M
o Tibet: 0.6-1.2M
o TOTAL: 44.5 to 72M
* Jasper Becker, Hungry Ghosts : Mao's Secret Famine (1996)
o Estimates of the death toll from the Great Leap Forward,

1959-61:

+ Judith Banister, China's Changing Population (1984):
30M excess deaths (acc2 Becker: "the most reliable estimate we have")

+ Wang Weizhi, Contemporary Chinese Population (1988):
19.5M deaths

+ Jin Hui (1993): 40M population loss due to "abnormal
deaths and reduced births"

+ Chen Yizi of the System Reform Inst.: 43-46M deaths

* Brzezinski:
o Forcible collectivization: 27 million peasants
o Cultural Revolution: 1-2 million
o TOTAL: 29 million deaths under Mao
* Daniel Chirot:
o Land reform, 1949-56
+ According to Zhou Enlai: 830,000
+ According to Mao Zedong: 2-3M
o Great Leap Forward: 20-40 million deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 1-20 million
* Jung Chang, Mao: the Unknown Story (2005)
o Suppression of Counterrevolutionaries, 1950-51:
3M by execution, mob or suicide
o Three-Anti Campaign, 1952-53: 200,000-300,000 suicides
o Great Leap Forward, 1958-61: 38M of starvation and overwork
o Cultural Revolution, 1966-76: > 3M died violent deaths
o Laogai camp deaths, 1949-76: 27M
o TOTAL under Mao: 70M
* Dictionary of 20C World History: around a half million
died in Cultural Rev.
* Eckhardt:
o Govt executes landlords (1950-51): 1,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1967-68): 50,000
* Gilbert:
o 1958-61 Famine: 30 million deaths.
* Kurt Glaser and Stephan Possony, Victims of Politics (1979):
o They estimate the body count under Mao to be 38,000,000
to 67,000,000.
o Cited by G & P:
+ Walker Report (see below): 44.3M to 63.8M deaths.
+ The Government Information Office of Taiwan (18 Sept.
1970): 37M deaths in the PRC.
+ A Radio Moscow report (7 Apr. 1969): 26.4M people had
been exterminated in China.
+ (NOTE: Obviously the Soviets and Taiwanese would, as
enemies, be strongly motivated to exaggerate.)
* Guinness Book of World Records:
o Although nowadays they don't come right out and declare Mao
to be the Top Dog in the Mass Killings category, earlier
editions (such as 1978) did, and they cited sources which
are similar, but not identical, to the Glaser & Possony sources:
+ On 7 Apr. 1969 the Soviet government radio reported
that 26,300,000 people were killed in China, 1949-65.
+ In April 1971 the cabinet of the government of Taiwan
reported 39,940,000 deaths for the years 1949-69.
+ The Walker Report (see below): between 32,2500,000
and 61,700,000.
* Harff and Gurr:
o KMT cadre, rich peasants, landlords (1950-51):
800,000-3,000,000
o Cultural Revolution (1966-75): 400,000-850,000
* John Heidenrich, How to Prevent Genocide: A Guide for
Policymakers, Scholars, and the Concerned Citizen:
27M death toll, incl. 2M in Cultural Revolution
* Paul Johnson doesn't give an overall total, but he gives
estimates for the principle individual mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Land reform, first years of PRC: at least 2 million people
perished.
o Great Leap Forward: "how many millions died ...
is a matter of conjecture."
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, calling the 3 Feb. 1979
estimate by Agence France Presse, "The most widely respected figure".
* Meisner, Maurice, Mao's China and After (1977, 1999), doesn't
give an overall total either, but he does give estimates for the three
principle mass dyings of the Mao years:
o Terror against the counterrevolutionaries: 2 million people
executed during the first three years of the PRC.
o Great Leap Forward: 15-30 million famine-related deaths.
o Cultural Revolution: 400,000, citing a 1979 estimate by
Agence France Presse.
* R. J. Rummel:
o Estimate:
+ Democide: 34,361,000 (1949-75)
# The principle episodes being...
* All movements (1949-58): 11,813,000
o incl. Land Reform (1949-53): 4,500,000
* Cult. Rev. (1964-75): 1,613,000
* Forced Labor (1949-75): 15,000,000
* Great Leap Forward (1959-63): 5,680,000
democides
+ War: 3,399,000
+ Famine: 34,500,000
# Great Leap Forward: 27M famine deaths
+ TOTAL: 72,260,000
o Cited in Rummel:
+ Li, Cheng-Chung (Republic of China, 1979): 78.86M
direct/indirect deaths.
+ World Anti-Communist League, True Facts of Maoist
Tyranny (1971): 64.5M
+ Glaser & Possony: 38 to 67M (see above)
+ Walker Report, 1971 (see below): 31.75M to 58.5M
casualties of Communism (excluding Korean War).
+ Current Death Toll of International Communism (1979):
39.9M
+ Stephen R. Shalom (1984), Center for Asian Studies,
Deaths in China Due To Communism: 3M to 4M death toll,
excluding famine.
* Walker, Robert L., The Human Cost of Communism in China (1971,
report to the US Senate Committee of the Judiciary)
"Casualties to Communism" (deaths):
o 1st Civil War (1927-36): .25-.5M
o Fighting during Sino-Japanese War (1937-45): 50,000
o 2nd Civil War (1945-49): 1.25M
o Land Reform prior to Liberation: 0.5-1.0M
o Political liquidation campaigns: 15-30M
o Korean War: 0.5-1.234M
o Great Leap Forward: 1-2M
o Struggle with minorities: 0.5-1.0M
o Cultural Revolution: .25-.5M
o Deaths in labor camps: 15-25M
o TOTAL: 34.3M to 63.784M
o TOTAL FOR PRC: 32M to 59.5M
* July 17, 1994, Washington Post (Great Leap Forward 1959-61)
o Shanghai University journal, Society: > 40 million
o Cong Jin: 40 million
o Chen Yizi: 43 million in the famine. 80 million total as a
result of Mao's policies.
* Weekly Standard, 29 Sept. 1997, "The Laogai Archipelago" by D.
Aikman:
o Between 1949 and 1997, 50M prisoners passed through the
labor camps, and 15,000,000 died (citing Harry Wu)
* WHPSI: 1,633,319 political executions and 25,961 deaths from
political violence, 1948-77. TOTAL: 1,659,280
* Analysis: If we line up the 14 sources which claim to be
complete, the median falls in the 45.75 to 52.5 million
range, so you probably can't go wrong picking a final
number from this neighborhood.
Depending on how you want to count some of the incomplete
estimates (such as Becker and Meisner) and whether to count a
source twice (or thrice, as with Walker) if it's referenced by
two different authorities, you can slide the median up and
down the scale by many millions. Keep in mind, however, that
official Chinese records are hidden from scrutiny,
so most of these numbers are pure guesses. It's pointless
to get attached to any one of them, because the real number
could easily be half or twice any number here.
* Perhaps a better way of estimating would be to add up the
individual components. The medians here are:
o Purges, etc. during the first few years: 2M (10 estimates)
o Great Leap Forward: 31-33M (14 estimates)
o Cultural Revolution: 1M (13 estimates)
o Ethnic Minorities, primarily Tibetans: 750-900T
(8 estimates, see below)
o Labor Camps: 20M (5 estimates)
o This produces a total of some 54,750,000 to 56,900,000
deaths. The weak link in this calculation is in the
Labor Camp numbers for which we only have 5 estimates.
* Notice that many early body counts (such as Walker) completely
miss the famine during the Great Leap Forward, which was
largely unknown in the west until around 1980. There are two
contradictory ways to assess those early estimates which
ignore the famine:
1. "If these are the numbers that they came up with without
the famine, imagine how high the true number will be
once you add the famine deaths."
2. "Can we trust any of these numbers? After all, if they
missed such a huge famine, they can't have known very much
about what was going on inside China."
* ... so this line of reasoning will get us nowhere. In fact, the
median of the 7 estimate that predate 1980 is 45.7M, which is
almost the same as the median of the 7 estimates that post-date
1980 -- 58M. (At this scale, a 12M difference counts as "almost
the same".)


Now, remember, these are the CITIZENS of those atheist shitholes being
killed by the Atheist regimes who made their lives such misery and
despair that when the atheist regimes crumbled from their own evil and
incompetence, the people could not wait to shuck off the filthy atheist
shitpigs and their nightmare.. and embrace a path more tolerant of
religion.. since then their nations have prospered.. still suffering
the deep scars of atheist abuse, but once more part of Civilisation and
making progress!!


Now, all you have to do is show similar EVIDENCE.. not your IDIOTIC
OPINIONS, or those of some other atheist cretin.. that countries like
the USA, which Prints "In God We Trust" on it's money, is in any way
such a murderous tyranny, torturing terrorising and murdering over
20,000,000 of it's citizens!

Off you go you snivelling atheist fraud!
Andrew B Chung
2009-04-27 23:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
From the atheists, NO facts, NO evidence, NO idea!
Consider all the religious wars and persecutions in history. They are
facts, evidence and ideas that fasgnadh deliberately ignores.
c***@ntlworld.com
2009-04-26 08:00:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Seon Ferguson
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the 1300s
and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300???     BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible!   B^D
I love the way how religious scum stand up for the barbaric crimes of the
church by saying they happened in the past. If that is the truth then we
should stop sending former Nazi's to jail because the holocaust is in the
past.
We cannot change the past but we can be responsible for our own
actions which would include demonising people who do not believe what
we believe. Sadly this is a human tendency so some of the religious
and atheists alike have fallen into the trap with tragic consequences.
We need to learn from the past so that it never happens again.
Martin Phipps
2009-04-22 12:27:15 UTC
Permalink
Religions made history by putting atheists into mass graves. Do I
have to remind you about the crusades, the Salem Witch Trials or the
Spanish Inquisition?

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA

"The development from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great
step in peoples' lives. And yet, that primitive religions are based
entirely on fear and the religions of civilized peoples purely on
morality is a prejudice against which we must be on our guard...
Science has therefore been charged with undermining morality, but the
charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually
on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis
is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be
restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death."

--Albert Einstein, New York Times Magazine (November 9, 1930)

"Nobody, certainly, will deny that the idea of the existence of an
omnipotent, just, and omnibeneficent personal God is able to accord
man solace, help, and guidance; also, by virtue of its simplicity it
is accessible to the most undeveloped mind. But, on the other hand,
there are decisive weaknesses attached to this idea in itself, which
have been painfully felt since the beginning of history. That is, if
this being is omnipotent, then every occurrence, including every human
action, every human thought, and every human feeling and aspiration is
also His work; how is it possible to think of holding men responsible
for their deeds and thoughts before such an almighty Being? In giving
out punishment and rewards He would to a certain extent be passing
judgment on Himself. How can this be combined with the goodness and
righteousness ascribed to Him? The main source of the present-day
conflicts between the spheres of religion and of science lies in this
concept of a personal God."

--Albert Einstein,Science, Philosophy and Religion, A Symposium,
published by the Conference on Science, Philosophy and Religion in
Their Relation to the Democratic Way of Life, Inc., New York (1941);
later published in Out of My Later Years (1950)

Martin
fasgnadh
2009-04-22 12:39:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Phipps
"The development from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great
step in peoples' lives. >
--Albert Einstein, New York Times Magazine (November 9, 1930)
Atheism, on the other hand REGRESSED from impotent irrelevance
for almost the entirety of human history, failing to produce a single
great and enduring civilisation, to bloody atheist tyrannies;
The Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR) and Mao's
Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution;


"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.



---------

The Harmony of Science and Religion"

"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."

- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^

Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)

`Abdu'l-Bahá, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.

"Bahá'u'lláh has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha


---------


I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.

- Galileo Galilei 1615.

..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.

- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954

The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it

- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher

The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven

- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642

I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world

- Louis Pasteur 1822-95

As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.

- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727

The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.

- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918

There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.

- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918

"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington

Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.

- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911

Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)

George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)

Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)

John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)

George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)

Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)

Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)

Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)

Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)

Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)

Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)

Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)

Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.

Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)

Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)

Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)

Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)

Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)

Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)

Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)



Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)

Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)


"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein

"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28

"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)


Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;

Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.

Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.

William Turner the "father of English botany"

John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.

Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,

Galileo Galilei

René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.

Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).

Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology

Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.

John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.


Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine

Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.

Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society

Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.

Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.

Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,

Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician

Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday

Charles Babbage

Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"

Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.

Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.


Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,

Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials

Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry

John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.

Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics

Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,

Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.

Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest

Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science

von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.

Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.

Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.

John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.

Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.

Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize

Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.

John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.

Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.

Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.

Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.


And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
Meteorite Debris
2009-04-22 13:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Last time that great scribe fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au> chipped
away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Post by fasgnadh
Atheism, on the other hand REGRESSED from impotent irrelevance
for almost the entirety of human history, failing to produce a single
great and enduring civilisation, to bloody atheist tyrannies;
The Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR) and Mao's
Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution;
That old fallacy. Give it up! The Catholic Church today is condemning
millions to die because of its teaching against contraception and
condoms.

OTOH I could compare xianity with the Lord's Resistance Army in Africa
and dig up some extremist nonsense and claim that this is what ALL
Xianity is about.

Cut out the bullshit!
--
Remove both YOUR_SHOES before replying
apatriot #1, atheist #1417,
Chief EAC prophet
Jason Gastrich prayed for me on 8 January 2009 and nothing happened.

Apatriotism Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/apatriotism

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make
you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 10:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Meteorite Debris
away at his/her stone these gems of wisdom for posterity ...
Post by fasgnadh
Atheism, on the other hand REGRESSED from impotent irrelevance
for almost the entirety of human history, failing to produce a single
great and enduring civilisation, to bloody atheist tyrannies;
The Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR) and Mao's
Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution;
That old fallacy.
You haven't demonstrated any fallacy, clearly you can't, or else
you would have! B^]

The truth is that Atheist states have terrorised tortured and murdered
over 40,000,000 people. And the truth about the atheist holocausts
cannot be hidden, or denied;
Post by Meteorite Debris
Give it up!
Like Galileao, a courageous Christian, I will never give up the truth.
Post by Meteorite Debris
The Catholic Church today is condemning
millions to die because of its teaching against contraception and
condoms.
My posts were the first to condemn it!

# From: fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au>
# Subject: Celibate Clerical Cretin Pontificates while
# Millions of Africans are dying
# Message-ID: <Uz2wl.29322$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 08:48:52 GMT

But there is a big difference between people CHOOSING to
follow bad advice, and being tortured, terrorised and
killed to FORCE compliance;

"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)

"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin

But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;

The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[

"We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him."
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper

"Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!" (early Soviet slogan)

"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853

"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"

"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars."
Post by Meteorite Debris
OTOH I could compare xianity with the Lord's Resistance Army in Africa
and dig up some extremist nonsense and claim that this is what ALL
Xianity is about.
The difference would be that Australia, Europe, the USA, Canada,
New Zealand, most of South America would prove you are lying,
as MOST modern majority-religious societies are tolerant rights-based
democracies where atheist minorities are protected.. whereas EVERY
Atheistt state has been a repressive tyranny, where religious have
been persecuted.

Over 40,000,000 victims of atheist terror, torture and murder.

This is TYPICAL of atheist societies, but NOT of religious ones;

# "State atheism is the official promotion of atheism
# by a government, typically by active suppression of
# religious freedom and practice."
# - "Protest for Religious Rights in the USSR:
# Characteristics and Consequences,
# David Kowalewski,
# Russian Review, Vol. 39, No. 4 (Oct., 1980), pp. 426-441,
#
#
# "An atheist, Pol Pot suppressed Cambodia's Buddhist religion:
# monks were defrocked; temples and artifacts, including statues of
# Buddha, were destroyed; and people praying or expressing
# other religious sentiments were often killed.
# ...the government emptied the cities through mass evacuations
# and sent people to the countryside. Cambodians were overworked
# and underfed on collective farms, often succumbing to disease or
# starvation as a result. Spouses were separated and family meals
# prohibited in order to steer loyalties toward the state
# instead of the family.
#
# About 1.7 million Cambodians, or about 20 percent of the population,
# were worked, starved, or beaten to death under Pol Pot's regime."
# - http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761579038/pol_pot.html
#
# The Cambodian Genocide:
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/392millones.jpg

#
# "The country's 40,000 to 60,000 Buddhist monks,
# regarded by the regime as social parasites,
# were defrocked and forced into labor brigades.
# Many monks were executed; temples and pagodas were
# destroyed or turned into storehouses or jails.
# Images of the Buddha were defaced and dumped into
# rivers and lakes. People who were discovered praying
# or expressing religious sentiments in other ways
# were often killed.
#
# The Christian and Muslim communities were among the most
# persecuted, as well. The Roman Catholic cathedral of
# Phnom Penh was completely razed.
#
# The Khmer Rouge forced Muslims to eat pork, which they
# regard as an abomination. Many of those who refused were killed.
# Christian clergy and Muslim imams were executed."
# - http://countrystudies.us/cambodia/29.htm
#
# "Forty-eight percent of Cambodia's Christians were killed
# because of their religion."
#
http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/communism_photos2/44camboyano.jpg
#
#
# "the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
# - Daniel Peris,
# "Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
# Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
#
#
# "State atheism has been mostly implemented in communist
# countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[1] China,
# Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea,
# Communist Mongolia and Poland under communist rule also
# promoted state atheism and suppressed religion.
# - Forced out: the fate of Polish Jewry in Communist Poland.
# Wolak, Arthur J. p 104
#
# In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an
# intrinsic part of communist ideology.
Post by Meteorite Debris
Cut out the bullshit!
I would rather leave in your bullshit and expose it for what it is! .

If you don't like a Nation with freedom and tolerance, even of atheists
who have never shown either when they come to power any time in history,
then fuck off to some atheist paradise.. Nth Korea seems to be the only
one that hasn't collapsed under it's own TOTAL FAILURE.. yet! B^p
--
# Subject: Re: US religious now at 85% - It's GOD in a LANDSLIDE!!!
# -Atheists wallow at 2.3% worldwide, 0.7% in the USA! -a pitiful
# fraction of the minority of non-believers! B^D
#
# From: fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au>
# Newsgroups:
# alt.atheism,aus.religion,alt.religion,aus.politics,
# alt.politics.republicans, alt.politics.democrats,uk.politics.misc
# Message-ID: <8QNtl.26734$***@news-server.bigpond.net.au>
# Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 12:07:32 GMT
#
# American Religious Identification Survey, Summary Report March 2009:
#
# "Self-identification of U.S. Adult Population by Religious Tradition
#
# 2001 2008
#
# Non- religious 29,481,000 (14.1%) 34,169,000 (15%)
#
# Agnostics 991,000 (0.5%) 1,985,000 (0.9%)
#
# Atheists 902,000 (0.4%) 1,621,000 (0.7%)
#
#
#
# BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAA!
#
#
# 0.7% of Americans!! B^D 2.3% worldwide!!! B^D
#
# 'NON-RELIGIOUS' DOES NOT = ATHEIST, YOU DISHONEST CRETINS!
#
#
# EVEN THE AGNOSTICS BEAT YOU!!! **AND** they grew FASTER!!!! B^D
ABC
2009-04-22 19:26:20 UTC
Permalink
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Which is as sane and sensible as he ever gets.
Martin Phipps
2009-04-25 01:14:22 UTC
Permalink
religionwithout science is blind.
- AlbertEinstein"Ideas and Opinions" 1954
Good. So we all agree then. :)

Martin
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 06:18:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Martin Phipps
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Martin Phipps
"The development from a religion of fear to moral religion is a great
step in peoples' lives. > --Albert Einstein, New York Times Magazine
(November 9, 1930)
Atheism, on the other hand REGRESSED from impotent irrelevance
for almost the entirety of human history, failing to produce a single
great and enduring civilisation, to bloody atheist tyrannies;
The Union of Savage Slaughter and Repression (USSR) and Mao's
Great Leap Backward and Cultural Devolution;
"Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism."
-Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism."
- Vladimir Ilyich Ulyanov (Lenin)
"How can you make a revolution without firing squads?"
- Lenin
But it was not just the Atheism of the leadership,
but of the entire State apparatus;
The Atheist leadership's policies were implemented under
the Red Terror, via gulags and executions, the use of
every arm of the state for anti-religious propaganda
and the forced indoctrination of CHILDREN! B^[
“We do not fight against believers and not even clergymen.
WE FIGHT AGAINST GOD to snatch believers from Him.”
-Vechernaia Moskva, a Soviet newspaper
“Let us drive out the Capitalists from the earth,
and God from Heaven!” (early Soviet slogan)
"the state established atheism as the only scientific truth."
- Daniel Peris,
"Storming the Heavens: The Soviet League of the Militant Godless"
Cornell University Press 1998 ISBN 9780801434853
"Criticism of atheism was strictly forbidden"
"Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested.
In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over
3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks.
Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water
in winter until they turned to ice-pillars.
---------
The Harmony of Science and Religion"
"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^
Good. So we all agree then. :)
As long as you couldn't refute or rebut ANY of the truth
in my posts, it seems you do agree with everything I said!

B^D
Post by Martin Phipps
Martin
Post by fasgnadh
Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)
`Abdu'l-Bahá, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;
"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.
"Bahá'u'lláh has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha
---------
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
There can never be any real opposition between religion and science.
Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the
religious elements in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if
all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance
and harmony.
- Max Planck winner of the 1918 Nobel prize in Physics
"Where is Science Going" 1918
"Something unknown is doing we don't know what"
-Sir Arthur Eddington
Religion and science are the two wings upon which man's intelligence can
soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It is not
possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with the
wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism.
- 'Abdu'l - Baha "Paris Talks" 1911
Fred Hoyle (British astrophysicist): "A common sense interpretation of
the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as
well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces
worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the
facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost
beyond question." (2)
George Ellis (British astrophysicist): "Amazing fine tuning occurs in
the laws that make this [complexity] possible. Realization of the
complexity of what is accomplished makes it very difficult not to use
the word 'miraculous' without taking a stand as to the ontological
status of the word." (3)
Alan Sandage (winner of the Crawford prize in astronomy): "I find it
quite improbable that such order came out of chaos. There has to be
some organizing principle. God to me is a mystery but is the
explanation for the miracle of existence, why there is something
instead of nothing." (6)
John O'Keefe (astronomer at NASA): "We are, by astronomical standards,
a pampered, cosseted, cherished group of creatures.. .. If the
Universe had not been made with the most exacting precision we could
never have come into existence. It is my view that these circumstances
indicate the universe was created for man to live in." (7)
George Greenstein (astronomer): "As we survey all the evidence, the
thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather,
Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without
intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence
of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially
crafted the cosmos for our benefit?" (8)
Arthur Eddington (astrophysicist): "The idea of a universal mind or
Logos would be, I think, a fairly plausible inference from the present
state of scientific theory." (9)
Arno Penzias (Nobel prize in physics): "Astronomy leads us to a unique
event, a universe which was created out of nothing, one with the very
delicate balance needed to provide exactly the conditions required to
permit life, and one which has an underlying (one might say
'supernatural') plan." (10)
Roger Penrose (mathematician and author): "I would say the universe
has a purpose. It's not there just somehow by chance." (11)
Tony Rothman (physicist): "When confronted with the order and beauty
of the universe and the strange coincidences of nature, it's very
tempting to take the leap of faith from science into religion. I am
sure many physicists want to. I only wish they would admit it." (12)
Vera Kistiakowsky (MIT physicist): "The exquisite order displayed by
our scientific understanding of the physical world calls for the
divine." (13)
Robert Jastrow (self-proclaimed agnostic): "For the scientist who has
lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad
dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to
conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he
is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for
centuries." (14)
Stephen Hawking (British astrophysicist): "Then we shall… be able to
take part in the discussion of the question of why it is that we and
the universe exist. If we find the answer to that, it would be the
ultimate triumph of human reason - for then we would know the mind of
God." (15)
Frank Tipler (Professor of Mathematical Physics): "When I began my
career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced
atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be
writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-
Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are
straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand
them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable
logic of my own special branch of physics." (16) Note: Tipler since
has actually converted to Christianity, hence his latest book, The
Physics Of Christianity.
Alexander Polyakov (Soviet mathematician): "We know that nature is
described by the best of all possible mathematics because God created
it."(17)
Ed Harrison (cosmologist): "Here is the cosmological proof of the
existence of God – the design argument of Paley – updated and
refurbished. The fine tuning of the universe provides prima facie
evidence of deistic design. Take your choice: blind chance that
requires multitudes of universes or design that requires only one....
Many scientists, when they admit their views, incline toward the
teleological or design argument." (18)
Edward Milne (British cosmologist): "As to the cause of the Universe,
in context of expansion, that is left for the reader to insert, but
our picture is incomplete without Him [God]." (19)
Barry Parker (cosmologist): "Who created these laws? There is no
question but that a God will always be needed." (20)
Drs. Zehavi, and Dekel (cosmologists): "This type of universe,
however, seems to require a degree of fine tuning of the initial
conditions that is in apparent conflict with 'common wisdom'." (21)
Arthur L. Schawlow (Professor of Physics at Stanford University, 1981
Nobel Prize in physics): "It seems to me that when confronted with the
marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how.
The only possible answers are religious. . . . I find a need for God
in the universe and in my own life." (22)
Henry "Fritz" Schaefer (Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and
director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the
University of Georgia): "The significance and joy in my science comes
in those occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to
myself, 'So that's how God did it.' My goal is to understand a little
corner of God's plan." (23)
Wernher von Braun (Pioneer rocket engineer) "I find it as difficult to
understand a scientist who does not acknowledge the presence of a
superior rationality behind the existence of the universe as it is to
comprehend a theologian who would deny the advances of science." (24)
Carl Woese (microbiologist from the University of Illinois) "Life in
Universe - rare or unique? I walk both sides of that street. One day I
can say that given the 100 billion stars in our galaxy and the 100
billion or more galaxies, there have to be some planets that formed
and evolved in ways very, very like the Earth has, and so would
contain microbial life at least. There are other days when I say that
the anthropic principal, which makes this universe a special one out
of an uncountably large number of universes, may not apply only to
that aspect of nature we define in the realm of physics, but may
extend to chemistry and biology. In that case life on Earth could be
entirely unique." (25)
"The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe. We are like a
little child entering a huge library. The walls are covered to the
ceilings with books in many different tongues. The child knows that
someone must have written these books. It does not know who or how. It
does not understand the languages in which they are written. But the
child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books - a
mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly
suspects." - Albert Einstein
"The statistical probability that organic structures and the most
precisely harmonized reactions that typify living organisms would be
generated by accident, is zero."- Ilya Prigogine (Chemist-Physicist)
Recipient of two Nobel Prizes in chemistry
I. Prigogine, N. Gregair, A. Babbyabtz, Physics Today 25, pp. 23-28
"The really amazing thing is not that life on Earth is balanced on a
knife-edge, but that the entire universe is balanced on a knife-edge,
and would be total chaos if any of the natural 'constants' were off
even slightly. You see," Davies adds, "even if you dismiss man as a
chance happening, the fact remains that the universe seems
unreasonably suited to the existence of life -- almost contrived --
you might say a 'put-up job'."- Dr. Paul Davies
(noted author and Professor of Theoretical Physics at Adelaide
University)
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic solids
was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most famous
scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion, was
based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's meticulous
astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were believers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists
--
Subject: AQOTM fraud is a clear Breach of AQOTM RULES!!!! 8^o
Quotemeister *nemo*toad implicated! 8^o
Message-ID: <49847258$0$3253$***@news.optusnet.com.au>

http://tinyurl.com/b4hemx

BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!


http://theatreinbrussels.com/ecc/images/stories/Productions/animalfarm-web.png
ABC
2009-04-26 07:36:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
Above we see fasgnadh at the height of his intellectual prowess.
fasgnadh
2009-04-25 14:15:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the 1300s
and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
.
Did you see doco fas ?/
Yes, i think it's important to know about the disasters caused by
dogmatism in the past so we avoid it in the present and the future
it was very interesting indeed
Interesting historically, and a great example how religion has evolved
and progressed with each new revelation,
Indeed Fas
as they had transcript of the interrogations it was great , often we
have to rely of accounts that can be biased
except when hardcore fundies try to cling to the past.
You do realise that was a reference to you, you fraud,
and your taliban mates.
For the Church that meant it took 1,343 years
to admit that Islam worships the same God.
In due time there will be one GOD,
Oh fer Cripes sake! How can you continue to PRETEND to be a
Muslim when you breach the most fundamental tenet of Islam..

There IS one God.. not, 'there will be one day!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA

You are as Muslim as a Bacon Burger!!!!
but it will take humans millions
of years to understand what GOD is , until then we use whatever we
have availbale to explain and understand
You can't even understand enough about the Qur'an to answer a simple
question about the most FUNDAMENTAL statement of faith in Islam...
the Shahada!
Do you think it will take Islam that long to admit that Rasul are not
Nabi?
"La Ilaha Ill Allah Muhammadur Rasul Allah"
("There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Rasul (Messenger) of Allah")
The term "Khatam-an-Nabiyyin" - Seal of the **Prophets** does not mean
that there will be no more Rasul (Messengers) but merely that the
prophetic cycle is sealed.
You are the most pathetic FAKE Muslim I have ever encountered in Usenet!
B^D

Your support of the Taliban, even as they terrorise and murder Pakistani
Muslims to intimidate them and control the Swat Valler, reveals you are
an Agent Provocateur, a Tool whose intent is to slander Islam and incite
hatred of Muslims BY PRETENDING To BE ONE!

I have called you on this before, when I, a non-Muslim, a mere Kafir,
asked you a simple question about the Qur'an and you couldn't answer,
gave some story about consulting your Imam and obviously couldn't
Google an answer! B^D

Now you are caught out again;

There are only 5 Rasul in the Qur'an, each credited with
a distinct revelation:


Ishmael, David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad


The term "Prophet" is distinctly different: "Nabi (sing.)
anbiyaa, nabiyyin (pl.)


There are 25 anbiyaa mentioned in the Qur'an, thus in addition to
the Rasul there are another 20, including Enoch, Ezekial, Isiah etc


Thus all Rasul are Nabi, but not all Nabi are Rasul.

All of the Messengers are also prophets, but not all
of the prophets are Messengers.. according to the Qur'an!


Rasul denotes a higher station.


The term "Khatam-an-Nabiyyin" - Seal of the Prophets thus refers
to the seal of the LESSER cycle, that of prophets, not of the more
ground-breaking and earth shattering Messengers. 8^)


Moreover "Khatam" meaning seal, or ornament is used in the Qur'an, and
not the related "Khatim", which is more commonly used to mean final or
last.


For Muslims to read those two statements as 'Mohammed is the final
word from God" would mean that Mohammed is only a Nabi, a 'mere'
prophet, and not the glorious Rasul which they proclaim him to be every
day. 8^o


And I have SILENCED the pretend Muslim! B^]

The Believer

"Thus does Allah confound the unbelievers."
Sura [40.74]


"Seest thou not that We have set the devils on the disbelievers
to confound them with confusion ?"
Sura [19:83]


Go, and stop slandering Islam with your vile support for the Taliban,
you Islamofascist tool!
Your Imams make the same mistake as the Saducees and Pharisees who
denied the Lord, Jesus, and the Priests and Cardinals who denied
Mohammed PBUH.
It is on their heads.. Allah is the Unconstrained!
I bet a lot of christians lost their faith in the church
Why, their Dark Age is in the past, your's is here and now.
.
How many Muslims are losing faith when they witness the extremists and
those like you who support the Taliban?
The Taliban are the only ones able to rebuild peace in Afghanistan
after the western armies have AGAIN destroyed it
The Taliban are a CREATION of the west, who armed the mujahadeen
with weapons to bring down Soviet attack helicopters.

Ask the Pakistanis in the Swat Valley about those medieval thugs!

[2.190] And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight
with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah
does not love those who exceed the limits.
As the Taliban are the only ones who can now restore law and order in
a devastated country we MUST support them
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHA

The Taliban have intimidated and TERRORISED the Pakistanis in the Swat
Valley by executing local leaders who oppose them.

Which Muslims are you pretending to be part of, the vast amjority
who already have Law and order in Pakistan or the Taliban who
seek to destroy it?
the Taliban are the only people who can restore law and order once
western taxpayers and their armies have destroyed Muslim countries
About a decade ago, I served on the school council of my kids
primary school with an Afghan chemist who was so grateful he
had been accepted as a refugee to Australia, even though he
was doing manual labour here, because his daughter could get an education!!!

Females are not educated by the Taliban.

So they can't become doctors.

But then, their husbands will not let them be examined by a male doctor...

We can join the dots, you pretend they aren't there!!! B^p
Islamofascists are killing more MUSLIMS than the Crusaders.
If you believe the western media
Bullshit, the entire WORLD is aware of the massive death toll in the
Iran-Iraq wars, when the Ayatollahs sent young fanatics to die in
wave after wave of full frontal attacks that left rivers of blood and
martyrs thicker than flies on your bullshit!


"Pakistan deploys troops to combat Taliban

Pakistan has sent troops to combat Taliban fighters,
who have moved into an area only 100km from the capital,
Islamabad.

Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid reports from Islamabad on what
some are calling "the Talibanisation of Pakistan"."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/2009/04/2009423175615839794.html

Oh Dear, that's AL Jazeera, not the Evil media of the Great Satan!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA

You insidious viper, your bullshit is exposed..
you are a PRETEND Muslim, seeking to discredit Islam by
falsely claiming to be part of it! B^D
BUT I know the CIA and mossad did 9/11 and Bali And London and Spain
sure you do.. you put on your tinfoil telepathic helmet! B^D

YOu can't even find al jazeera on the Net! B^D

You don't know what day it is, you are as Muslim as a Vodka shot with a
beer chaser!!!
and Mumbai bombings and most so called suicide bombings are mostly CIA
and Mossad assassinations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag
granted they always employ locals like they did in australia to carry
out the dirty work , they then kill them once the work is finished
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Police
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Police
its no wonder so many christians are converting to Islam
It's not a numbers game.
When Tahireh tore off her veil and declared "You may kill me
if you wish, but you cannot stop the emancipation of women"
a full half-century before the sufragettes in Europe, the new age
dawned... and your Imam's and Mullahs missed it, as surely
as the Vatican missed Galileao, and the San Hedron missed Jesus!
The Persian Imams did kill her, eventually, a poet slaughtered
by the faith of Hafez and Rumi... the heavens wept! ...but all
around the world ...WOMEN ARE EMANCIPATED.
That is less than 150 years since the return of the Hidden Imam..
never has a faith swept the globe with such astonishing speed.
The Baha'i were created by great Britain as a front and under cover
agents nest to prepare the invasion of the Otterman empire
The Otterman Umpire? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAAA

Loading Image...

Now if you want to see an Ottoman, there are representatives
of the Ottoman empire standing behind Abdul Baha when he was
knighted by the British FOR HIS SERVICES TO THE PALESTINIANS,
during the first world war!!

Loading Image...

The one with the sword and pyjama pants is an Ottoman, so is the one
holding the award and all the others wearing Fez.

Abdul Baha was exiled to Palestine, with his Father and family, by the
Persian Shah, and locked in a foul prison in the pestilential city of
Akka.. and yet, such was his character, that he won over his captors,
became on friendly terms with the governing authority, including those
smiling officials in the photo, and was so beloved for his charitable
work that when he died, thousands, Christians, Jews and Muslims attended
his funeral.

Now he never used the title "Sir" so little did such things mean to
him. Bahai's eschew politics. They are the only religion who not
only support the separation of church and State, but refuse to accept
any money from outside their faith, to ensure that separation is
maintained!

Now.. as he was EXILED from Persia, by the Shah, not the British, and
imprisoned in an OTTOMAN jail in Palestine, by the Ottomans at the
request of the Shah.. not the Jews .. it WAS HARDLY A BRITISH/ZIONIST
PLOT.. you pathetic slandering lunatic!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAA!


I have seen the hate-websites claiming 'Bahai are a Zionist front',
created by the same anti-semites who you pander to, and they are as
big a joke as you are.
as was the Druze and Zionists and Mormons
How come you never have any evidence for your bullshit? B^]
When theyare no longer needed the Superpowers will cut off funding and
they will die out or be killed
The Persians killed Tahireh, but they could not stop the emancipation of
women.

The Imams killed the Bab, and the mob tore his body to pieces,
but now
Iran does not hate them for their beliefs but because they are
traitors who get funding from the west to destroy their own country
Read what a RUSSIAN official said of the Bahai who were
refugees in Ashkabad after the Persian Imams had killed
20,000 martyrs;

"This harmless, progressive, liberal sect was founded by the Bab, who
was shot in Tabriz in 1850, close to the wall of the citadel at a place
which I tried in vain to locate. The Babis were persecuted in Persia in
my time and had to conceal their faith; I had never met them there. They
came to Russia and even spread to America, where they were called Baha'i.

The Babis in Ashkhabad formed a closely knit community of honest,
law-abiding people, somewhat reminiscent of the early Christian churches
in the first century after Christ. The great event in the life of the
Babi colony was the arrival of Hadji Mirza M.Taghi,* a Babi chief, and
nephew of Bab, from Yezd, Persia in 1902. A rich, wise, kind old man of
Biblical appearance and dressed in floating Oriental garments, he looked
like one of the Magi who came to Bethlehem to adore the birth of Christ.

I presented Hadji Mirza M. Taghi to military governor of Transcaspia,
General D. I. Subotich, who agreed to lay the corner-stone of the Babi
temple. It was an impressive ceremony, this Russian recognition of
Babism as an established religion at a moment when hundreds of Babis
were being slaughtered in Persia. The Bab community presented General
Subotich with a picture by the famous calligrapher Meshkin Kalam,
representing a bird on a tree. The picture was formed with the letters
composing the verse, 'On the Tree of Eternity sits the Bird of Truth
repeating: "He (God) is one, is one, is one." '

Although the Babis in Ashkhabad kept the outward appearance of
old-fashioned Moslems, their conceptions were entirely different. Babi
women visited European families and enjoyed a freedom unknown at that
time in Moslem countries. The Babishad a small book called Kitabi
Siossieh (The Book of Behavior). They considered that each man had a
divine spark which must be kept pure during his lifetime in order to
ascend to heaven. The Babis in Ashkhabad presented various stages of
evolution, ranging from a purely Oriental to a European way of life.
However, they retained their Persian attire, whereas in European Russia
they wore western clothes. I was glad to hear that after the revolution
the persecution of Babis ceased in Persia, and I have no doubt that they
will prove to be excellent Persian citizens. They are rtainly good
examples of what may become of a Persian liberated from the suffocating
atmosphere of an old decaying past. "


http://lavezzo.com/Ashkabad/p442.html


Now that's what's known as an INDEPENDENT EYE-WITNESS account.

Russian, not British, and known more for Pogroms AGAINST the Jews
than for being in their pocket.

Your propaganda lies and slanders just don't stand up!

2.62: Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews,
and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in
Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their
reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor
shall they grieve.
They are ALL or were originally traitors being used as smoke
screens , manufactured by the west
The UN has on numerous occasions documented the persecution of the
Bahai in Iran.

You can't bury the truth.

Even now.. they refuse to mount any attack on the Iranian government
which has denied jobs in government to Bahai, denied education to
their children arrested tortured and killed Bahai for 'crimes' such
as teaching Bahai childrens classes.

Along with the Tibetan Buddhists, they remain almost alone in shunning
not just 'wars of Liberation' but any political opposition at all.

There is no Bahai rebellion. no revolt, no subversion.

They live as the Russian official described, fleeing from and denouncing
persecution and violence... they would rather die than kill.

You and your lies cannot hide that light.
According to my great great grandparents who worked as British spies
and helped created them over several generations working as agents ,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Ross_Key
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Scott_Key
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirza_Malkom_Khan
WTF? Two people who were DEAD before the Bahai faith began in 1844
and a Persian who lost his job over a lottery scandal??? B^D

What the hell doe that have to do with anything you ranting lunatic!? B^D
http://www.familyrecords.gov.uk/focuson/womeninuniform/popups/crimea_agreement.htm
.
Uncle Bob confirmed it
That your name is Fabian and your mother was a nurse in Turkey! B^D

Who gives a shit? B^p
and he had access to the original evidence
Chief Detective Inspector Robert Fabian of Scotland Yard
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=dqc&q=+chief+inspector+robert+fabian&btnG=Search&meta=
You are a complete raving nutjob.

None of that has anything to do with the topic,
and there is nothing of consequence in the rest of your rambling post..
Allah is the unconstrained! He is not bound by your or my, or
anyone else's feeble understanding... only afterwards, looking
back does it become clear what happened.
A lone voice, in a corrupted Persia, a mere slip of a girl,
spoke with absolute authority, and Islam, once the torch bearer of
civilisation, murdered her.. and became closed to the Divine fragrances
wafting on the breeze...
It was in the West, which you despise for past and present wrongs,
that the Spirit took wings, and now Islam lags, not behind the West,
with it's pornography, but behind the new dispensation, where Men
and Women are equal! ;-)
Your clerics can play their power games forever, but the torch is passed
and has left Iislam clouded in shadows.
Look at Pakistan, in the Swat Vally, Islamofascist terror is stalking
Muslims! 8^o
When will you AWAKE from your slumber!?
The religion of love is a part from all religions.
The lovers of God have no religion but God alone
-The Mathnawi II, 1720
kanga
======
~ I Have Learned So Much ~
I
Have
Learned
So much from God
That I can no longer
Call
Myself
A Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim,
a Buddhist, a Jew.
The Truth has shared so much of Itself
With me
That I can no longer call myself
A man, a woman, an angel,
Or even a pure
Soul.
Love has
Befriended Hafiz so completely
It has turned to ash
And freed
Me
Of every concept and image
my mind has ever known.
When I speak to Christians I remind them of Christ, and ask
'Why the Crusades'?
When i speak to Jews I remind them of Babylon and ask "Why
the Gaza Ghetto/"
When i speak to Muslims, I remind them Allah is the Compassionate,
and ask "Why the persecution of the Bahai?"
But if They come for the Jews, I am a Jew, if they come for the
Christians, I am a Christian, and if they come for the Muslims,
I am a Muslim.
511
The clear bead at the centre changes everything.
There are no edges to my loving now.
I've heard it said there's a window that opens
from one mind to another,
but if there's no wall, there's no need
for fitting the window, or the latch.
--
The Seal of the What???
The mistake causing Muslim persecution of Bahai;
The Great Disappointment 1844
was a major event in the history of the Millerite movement, a 19th
century American Christian sect. William Miller, a Baptist preacher,
prophesied that Jesus Christ would return to the earth during the year
1844. A more specific date, that of October 22, 1844 was calculated by
Samuel S. Snow.
True, a number of Christian theologians, from
a variety of denominations, believed 1844 was
the time of fulfillment of Hebrew and Christian
prophesies.
In the Holy land, Templars had built their houses
You can still read a carved inscription above one
door of a Templar family "Der Herr ist Nahe" (God is nigh)
"On May 23, 1844, in Shiraz, Persia, a young man known
as the Báb announced the imminent appearance of the
Messenger of God awaited by all the peoples of the world.
The title Báb means "the Gate".
http://www.bahai.org/dir/thebab
1844 marks the birth of the Bahá'í faith, The Messenger of God
proclaimed by The Bab was Bahá’u’lláh, who declared he was
the Return of the Spriit of Christ, the Hidden Imam, the Promised One
of all religions...http://www.bahai.org/dir/bahaullah
So who was disappointed? B^)
The Bab "acquired tens of thousands of supporters,
was virulently opposed by Iran's Shi'a clergy, and
was suppressed by the Iranian government leading
to thousands of his followers, termed Bábís, being
persecuted and killed. In 1850 the Báb was shot by
a firing squad in Tabríz."
The mob tore his corpse to pieces. His remains
are now interred in this Shrine, on the slopes
of Mt Carmel, where the Christian Millernarians
and the Templars awaited the 2nd Coming of Christ
in 1844, and, though they didn't realise at the time,
http://tinyurl.com/6lxsym
Jesus did not appear as expected
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night"
2 PETER 3:10
As expected, but not where expected. ;-)
No different from the First Coming, .the Pharisees said that
the prophecies foretold the Messiah would be 'a King' not
a Carpenter, and taunted "where is his crown?,
where is his throne?, where is his sword?
...and they killed him in their ignorance of the spiritual
kingdom he rules, the the sword of his Word, which cleaved
even members of a family, some ho believed and others who did not.
Muslims make the same mistake of believing they can tie
Allah's hands with their own INTERPETATION , but they
misunderstand the "Khatam-an-Nabiyyin" - "Seal of the Prophets"
and falsely argue that there can be no more 'Rasul', after
Mohammed (PBUH).
God is not constrained by the poor understanding of men. 8^)
and as a result October 22, 1844 became known as the Great
Disappointment.
Not to millions of Bahá'ís, whose beliefs, such as the equality
of men and women, declared half a century before
the Sufragette movement took off in Europe, seem to indicate
their teachings are indeed those for this age! B^)
Did people reallly think Jesus would re-appear in the clouds
with bleeding holes in his palms?
---------
Mohammed, according to the Qur'an, is NOT
the 'Seal'(End) of the Messengers of God('Rasul').
merely the seal of the prophets ('Nabi').
The fundamental profession of Muslim faith,
"La Ilaha Ill Allah Muhammadur Rasul Allah"
Translates as
"There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Rasul (Messenger) of Allah"
There are only 5 Rasul in the Qur'an, each credited with
Ishmael, David, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad
The term "Prophet" is distinctly different: "Nabi (sing.)
anbiyaa, nabiyyin (pl.)
There are 25 anbiyaa mentioned in the Qur'an, thus in addition to
the Rasul there are another 20, including Enoch, Ezekial, Isiah etc
Thus all Rasul are Nabi, but not all Nabi are Rasul.
All of the Messengers are also prophets, but not all
of the prophets are Messengers.. according to the Qur'an!
Rasul denotes a higher station.
The term "Khatam-an-Nabiyyin" - Seal of the Prophets thus refers
to the seal of the LESSER cycle, that of prophets, not of the more
ground-breaking and earth shattering Messengers. 8^)
Moreover "Khatam" meaning seal, or ornament is used in the Qur'an, and
not the related "Khatim", which is more commonly used to mean final or
last.
For Muslims to read those two statements as 'Mohammed is the final
word from God" would mean that Mohammed is only a Nabi, a 'mere'
prophet, and not the glorious Rasul which they proclaim him to be every
day! 8^o
Try explaining that in Tehran and see how long you continue
breathing ;-)
Such is the fate of the Bahá'ís in the land where their faith was born.
20,000 were slaughtered outright, they are not allowed to
attend university, they are not allowed to be employed
in government, some, like my friend, were tortured, her
friends killed.. all they had to do to survive was recant
their faith.
Now living in Australia, my friend's son is a Professor
at an Australian university, she invites Muslim students
in her block...
read more »
religious sermon unnecessary mate
I know there is one GOD , the word Allah is Arabic for The GOD
The same GOD , my ancient , long long ago family / tribe Sabians
worshipped . [ hence Fabian from latin , early english had no letter
F]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians
Living in south australia I am influenced by the things around me and
the things my family passed to me so its all ancient history
really ,peoples faith grow evolve mature and adapt and once outside
fundinfg is cut off they live or die by their merits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabians#Islamic_reference
.
Everybody can work out their own understanding and describe their
thought in words they choose to use to those listening , no point
feeding infants solid food if all they can handle is milk ,people can
and do seek answers if they need , but its up to them to do the work ,
if they are over 18
I found all I need to know long ago , and dont need help to discover
truth and justice , it come in time to all who seek endlessly
Islam means , the way / path of peace
Muslim means believer
jesus was nor a christian
christianity is a fabrication by paul for Rome
Abraham was not a jew but a native of southern Iraq ,the jews came
along later and got thrown out in 586 BCE
Abrahan and Jesus like me believe in the one GOD who is the thing that
is the most powerful / biggest thing in the universe
Nobody will ever get to know more than a tiny bit about him/it in our
lifetimes
we all are as babes in the woods , we still dont even know about the
tiny things around us let alone the thing that is the biggest in the
entire universe
its no good relying on somebody else to think for you , unless you are
deprived of history books or can not read
Once western taxpayers have been bled to death and the Druze /
Zionists and Bahais get they funding cut off and the CIA and Mossad no
longer need them they will all be killed off , just like Saddam was
when he was no longer needed
same as Truganini was once she had led her people to their deaths and
handed over all their wealth and land she was no longer needed , they
poisoned her
The jews druze and Bahais are simply traitors and gullible fools , as
are all soldiers and native police , once they are of no further use
the ruling elites wipe them out
Having a ranting loon like you attack the 'jews druze and Bahais'
is a ringing endorsement of them.
kanga
=======
--
Subject: AQOTM fraud is a clear Breach of AQOTM RULES!!!! 8^o
Quotemeister *nemo*toad implicated! 8^o
Message-ID: <49847258$0$3253$***@news.optusnet.com.au>

http://tinyurl.com/b4hemx

BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!


Loading Image...
kangarooistan
2009-04-25 14:41:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA
You are as Muslim as a Bacon Burger!!!!
OK mate , seeing how you think you know about these things

WHY not settle it once and for all time

Go to your phone and find the number of the Mount Barker mosque ring
and tell them mal Fabian is a fraud and not a real muslim

30 cents and your problems are all over mate

Why let me get away with FRAUD

OR HAVE YOU NO GUTS MATE

Just ALL MOUTH

kanga
=====
kangarooistan
2009-04-25 14:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA
You are as Muslim as a Bacon Burger!!!!
OK mate , seeing how you think you know about these things

WHY not settle it once and for all time

Go to your phone and find the number of the Mount Barker mosque  ring
and tell them mal Fabian is a fraud and not a real muslim

30 cents and your problems are all over mate

Why let me get away with FRAUD

OR HAVE YOU NO GUTS MATE

Just ALL MOUTH

kanga
=====
# [PDF]
MUSLIM TOURIST INFORMATION
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Mount Barker Mosque. Address: 7 Macfarlane Terrace, Mount Barker SA
5251. Phone: (08) 8391 5417. Name: Murray Bridge Mosque. Address: ...
www.southaustralia.com/sg/pdf/SingaporePDFs/Muslim_Tourist_Information_on_South_Australia_Jan_083.pdf
- Similar pages -
#
Honorary Consulate of the Republic of Indonesia
Islamic Arabic Centre & Al-Khali Mosque Torrens Road, Woodville North
Tel (08) 8268 1944. Mount Barker Mosque 7 Macfarlane Terrace Mount
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www.tcn.com.au/indocon/consulate.html - 40k - Cached - Similar pages -
#
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Add a placamerk to the Mount Barker, Mount Barker map. ... hospital,
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- 14k - Cached - Similar pages -
More results from www.maplandia.com »
#
float Threads - NNTPnews.NET - Global Usenet Archiver
... bucks reward for the name and address and return of kangas Camel
float , [trailer /transport ] reg TRF'920 , taken / stolen from Mount
Barker Mosque . ...
www.nntpnews.net/tags/float/14/ - 16k - Cached - Similar pages -
#
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Churches, Mosques & Temples in SA. Select a business name from the
list below. ... Naracoorte Lutheran Church of Australia - Mt Barker
Lutheran Church of ...
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- Similar pages -
#
Adelaide City Mosque Al-khalel Mosque Approved by: Edition: 1.0
Mount Barker Mosque. 7 Macfarlane Tce Mt Barker. 5251. (08) 8391 5417.
Murray Bridge Mosque. Lot 53 Old Swanport Rd. Murray Bridge SA ...
mymissa.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/adelaide-muslim-guide.pdf -
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Budikka
2009-04-25 14:24:59 UTC
Permalink
The *fact* that you RUN AWAY from the history of the Catholic church
and deliberately, desperately try to change the subject instead of
having the moral courage to condemn hatred, dogma and violence tells
everyone here everything they need to know about you.

End of story. Case closed.

You can go now.

Budikka
raven1
2009-04-25 15:29:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 07:24:59 -0700 (PDT), Budikka
Post by Budikka
The *fact* that you RUN AWAY from the history of the Catholic church
and deliberately, desperately try to change the subject instead of
having the moral courage to condemn hatred, dogma and violence tells
everyone here everything they need to know about you.
He also likes to play the "No True Scotsman" fallacy in regard to
Muslim atrocities. He's a hypocrite, a coward, and a fool.
Post by Budikka
End of story. Case closed.
You can go now.
Budikka
fasgnadh
2009-04-27 12:27:33 UTC
Permalink
Here is my header - referring to the Cathars in France"

" Re: Cathars in France - How religions made history,
and atheists made mass graves"

Here is Bukakke's header, obliterating all reference to the
historical issues, and replacing fact with atheist ad hom,
slander, lies and abuse;

""fasgnadh" - Another Dogmatic, Blind Believer who supports
Hatred and Murder"

And here is the post where *I* condemn ALL hatred and murder,
while Bukakke only condemns the ancient Medieval atrocities
and defends the far greater Atheist ones; B^]

<begin: my restore of Bukakke snipping and running B^>
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
Clearly I have confronted these medieval Christian abuses head on.

While Bukakke has snipped ALL of theis historical debate and then LIED
about it!!!
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry
for fresh air after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
<end: my restore of Bukakke snipping and running! B^>
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
The *fact* that you RUN AWAY from the history of the Catholic church
That isn't a fact.

I have replaced the DEBATE which YOU snipped and ran away from!! B^]

Once again you are exposed as a weak, irrational, ranting atheist liar!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHA!



Not only have *I* acknowledged the history of the Church's political
reason for creating the Inquisition, i have elaborated and explained it,
and put it in a larger context! [ Bukakke has snipped and ran! B^]

It certainly stands up well, when compared to EVERY atheist state,
which were 100% totalitarian shitholes.. in living memory!

At least the Church committed most of it's atrocities IN THE DARK AGES
when everyone was ignorant, illiterate and barbaric.. whereas
atheism CREATED those condition.. IN THE 'MODERN'(sic) ERA!! 8^o

When it appears ONLY THE ATHEISTS remained ignorant, illiterate and
barbaric! B^D
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
and deliberately, desperately try to change the subject
YOU changed the subject you rank HYPOCRITE!!!

Before YOU both the subject and the body discussed the Cathars.. B^)

AFTER YOU SNIPPED AND RAN FROM BOTH.. nothing of the historical debate
remaned!

What a pathetic liar and hypocrite you are!

I acknowledged the Church's misdeeds and extended the debate,
putting it in the context of the FAR GREATER Atheist holocaust!

You have abandoned the rational debate and so lack intellectual
integrity and moral courage that you simply substitute LIES,
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
instead of having the moral courage to condemn hatred,
Good point.. unlike myself who condemns BOTH the medieval
Church misdeeds and the Atheist holocaust, why have you
snipped all of the rational debate and refused to condemn either??

8^o

You are caught red-handed, bare face lying and exposed to ridicule!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
dogma and violence tells
everyone here everything they need to know
That explains your post, your vile slanders, your actions as
an atheist and your cowardice and hypocrisy.

You have abandoned the substantive issues and posted nothing
but lies, hypocrisy, slander and abuse....
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
about you.
Oh fear not.. you have not damaged my reputation,


you have DESTROYED your own.

Not only will i mock you from one end of Usenet to the other..

but even your atheist cronies are cringing at your ineptitude
and clumsy Own Goal! B^]

Priceless!

cadit quaetio! B^)
Post by raven1
He also likes to play the "No True Scotsman" fallacy in regard to
Muslim atrocities.
Are you trying to avoid BOTH the Church and Atheist persecutions
by changing the subject as Bukakke did? B^D


What does that make YOU?
Post by raven1
a hypocrite, a coward, and a fool.
Post by Budikka
End of story.
Oh you claim your post is a work of fiction! B^D

No one needs to be told! B^]
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Case closed.
You don't have a case.. you ARE ONE! B^D
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
You can go now.
No I will rub salt in your gaping wounds.. B^)

more of the discussion of the Medieval issue Bukkake the Bullshitter
claims was avoided; ... BY HER!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in contrast to the latest
Divine Revelation which was launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith and a renewed new
revelation, because ALL of history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
That would be the ATHEISTS, eh!?!!!! B^D
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era, the choice, if you
want civilisation, is still which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists note the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the 20th
Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
Have you all noticed how EVERY atheist hypocrite ignores this obvious
point!?

They must think that EVERYONE is a bigoted, narrowminded and
SELF-BLINDED as they are! B^D
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical world was said
to be completely un-xian but torturing and burning anyone who believed
such was entirely xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared to the 40,000,000
killed by atheists in the 'modern'(sic) era???
How come atheist hypocrites like Bukakke NEVER have any facts!?

They actually have no idea of the small numbers of witches burnt,
or victims of the Borgia popes.. which they bang on endlessly about,
straining at gnats and swallowing camels!!!
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
How come I provide all basic facts behind these historical issues,
and all atheists do is IGNORE (and snip) the EVIDENCE!?? B^D
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN Christianity
for Dark Deeds in the Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
Why is Bukakke, and all the other atheist hypocrites, so devoid
of moral courage?
Post by raven1
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and of each
other') when I say simply 'atheism is historically a Tyranny, in EVERY
case of atheist regimes, and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern Church responsible
for ancient misdeeds, dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from insignificance in
history, to 20th century mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force in the history
of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just responsible for persecuting a handful of Cathars;
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration and
sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world
view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic
solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most
famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer, even when
persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years the Church apologised! B^D
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal
Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research
Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness and the church
was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The church still plays that role today condemning millions in Africa
to die for a doctrine by its teachings on contraception and condoms.
It's mistakes in no way match the deliberate slaughter by
historical atheism, killing over 40,000,000 people
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 – June
20, 1966)
a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics
and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven, proposed the Big Bang
theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe, from a modern
rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it inflicted five
brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised and murdered tens of
millions, before being re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
---------

The Harmony of Science and Religion"

"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."

- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^

Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)

`Abdu'l-Bahá, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.

"Bahá'u'lláh has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha


---------
Andrew B Chung
2009-04-27 20:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Here is my header - referring to the Cathars in France"
" Re: Cathars in France - How religions made history,
and atheists made mass graves"
The Cathars were put in these graves by the machinations of the Catholic
Church.
raven1
2009-04-28 00:48:17 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:27:33 GMT, fasgnadh <***@yahoo.com.au>
wrote:

<530 lines of off-topic crap snipped>

And predictably, you responded with your usual torrent of irrelevant
verbal diarrhea. Here's a clue, fool: no one is going to bother wading
through such tripe. Conciseness is your friend.
Olrik
2009-04-28 01:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by raven1
<530 lines of off-topic crap snipped>
And predictably, you responded with your usual torrent of irrelevant
verbal diarrhea. Here's a clue, fool: no one is going to bother wading
through such tripe. Conciseness is your friend.
Not when you're a narcissistic creep, though!

Olrik
fasgnadh
2009-04-29 09:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Olrik
usual torrent of irrelevant verbal diarrhea.
wading through such tripe.
Not when you're a narcissistic creep, though!
Olrik
How long have you known he's a narcissist?
--
Subject: AQOTM fraud is a clear Breach of AQOTM RULES!!!! 8^o
Quotemeister *nemo*toad implicated! 8^o
Message-ID: <49847258$0$3253$***@news.optusnet.com.au>

http://tinyurl.com/b4hemx

BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!


http://theatreinbrussels.com/ecc/images/stories/Productions/animalfarm-web.png
Olrik
2009-04-29 14:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Olrik
usual torrent of irrelevant verbal diarrhea.
 >> wading through such tripe.
Post by Olrik
Not when you're a narcissistic creep, though!
Olrik
How long have you known he's a narcissist?
"Creative" snipping and context alteration make you a dishonest,
defective person.
--
      Subject: AQOTM fraud is a clear Breach of AQOTM RULES!!!!   8^o
               Quotemeister *nemo*toad implicated!  8^o
     http://tinyurl.com/b4hemx
      BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
http://theatreinbrussels.com/ecc/images/stories/Productions/animalfar...
raven1
2009-04-30 01:11:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Olrik
usual torrent of irrelevant verbal diarrhea.
wading through such tripe.
Not when you're a narcissistic creep, though!
Olrik
How long have you known he's a narcissist?
Even your one-liners are pathetic and dishonest.
fasgnadh
2009-05-01 07:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by raven1
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Olrik
usual torrent of irrelevant verbal diarrhea.
wading through such tripe.
Not when you're a narcissistic creep, though!
Olrik
How long have you known he's a narcissist?
Even your one-liners are pathetic and dishonest.
Have a little cry, you feeble sook.. when you give up the rational
argument and post NOTHING but ad hom and abuse.. I STILL KICK YOUR ARSE!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAA
--
Subject: AQOTM fraud is a clear Breach of AQOTM RULES!!!! 8^o
Quotemeister *nemo*toad implicated! 8^o
Message-ID: <49847258$0$3253$***@news.optusnet.com.au>

http://tinyurl.com/b4hemx

BwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!


http://theatreinbrussels.com/ecc/images/stories/Productions/animalfarm-web.png
raven1
2009-05-04 13:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Post by raven1
Post by fasgnadh
Post by Olrik
usual torrent of irrelevant verbal diarrhea.
wading through such tripe.
Not when you're a narcissistic creep, though!
Olrik
How long have you known he's a narcissist?
Even your one-liners are pathetic and dishonest.
Have a little cry, you feeble sook.. when you give up the rational
argument
If I gave up rational argument, that would still leave me ahead of
you, who have never bothered to offer one in the first place.
Post by fasgnadh
and post NOTHING but ad hom and abuse.. I STILL KICK YOUR ARSE!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAA
Q.E.D.

Kelsey Bjarnason
2009-04-30 19:43:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by raven1
<530 lines of off-topic crap snipped>
And predictably, you responded with your usual torrent of irrelevant
verbal diarrhea. Here's a clue, fool: no one is going to bother wading
through such tripe. Conciseness is your friend.
In his case, I might be inclined to suggest "consciousness" rather than
"conciseness".
--
It only gets better for us when we die... -- Scott Brubaker
It gets better for us, too - we no longer have to listen to fundy
morons.-- David Worrell
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 06:59:05 UTC
Permalink
Budikka changed the subject and then accused me of doing it! B^D :

Here is my header - referring to the Cathars in France"

" Re: Cathars in France - How religions made history,
and atheists made mass graves"

Here is Bukakke's header, obliterating all reference to the
histiorical issues, and replacing fact with atheist ad hom,
slander, lies and abuse;

""fasgnadh" - Another Dogmatic, Blind Believer who supports
Hatred and Murder"

And here is the post where *I* condemn ALL hatred and murder,
while Bukakke only condemns the ancient Medieval atrocities
and defends the far greater Atheist ones; B^]

<begin: my restore of Bukakke snipping and running B^>
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
Clearly I have confronted these medieval Christian abuses head on.

While Bukakke has snipped ALL of theis historical debate and then LIED
about it!!!
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry
for fresh air after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by the
"one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
<end: my restore of Bukakke snipping and running! B^>
Post by Budikka
The *fact* that you RUN AWAY from the history of the Catholic church
That isn't a fact.

I have replaced the DEBATE which YOU snipped and ran away from!! B^]

Once again you are exposed as a weak, irrational, ranting atheist liar!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHA!



Not only have *I* acknowledged the history of the Church's political
reason for creating the Inquisition, i have elaborated and explained it,
and put it in a larger context! [ Bukakke has snipped and ran! B^]

It certainly stands up well, when compared to EVERY atheist state,
which were 100% totalitarian shitholes.. in living memory!

At least the Church committed most of it's atrocities IN THE DARK AGES
when everyone was ignorant, illiterate and barbaric.. whereas
atheism CREATED those condition.. IN THE 'MODERN'(sic) ERA!! 8^o

When it appears ONLY THE ATHEISTS remained ignorant, illiterate and
barbaric! B^D
Post by Budikka
and deliberately, desperately try to change the subject
YOU changed the subject you rank HYPOCRITE!!!

Before YOU both the subject and the body discussed the Cathars.. B^)

AFTER YOU SNIPPED AND RAN FROM BOTH.. nothing of the historical debate
remaned!

What a pathetic liar and hypocrite you are!

I acknowledged the Church's misdeeds and extended the debate,
putting it in the context of the FAR GREATER Atheist holocaust!

You have abandoned the rational debate and so lack intellectual
integrity and moral courage that you simply substitute LIES,
Post by Budikka
instead of having the moral courage to condemn hatred,
Good point.. unlike myself who condemns BOTH the medieval
Church misdeeds and the Atheist holocaust, why have you
snipped all of the rational debate and refused to condemn either??

8^o

You are caught red-handed, bare face lying and exposed to ridicule!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Post by Budikka
dogma and violence tells
everyone here everything they need to know
That explains your post, your vile slanders, your actions as
an atheist and your cowardice and hypocrisy.

You have abandoned the substantive issues and posted nothing
but lies, hypocrisy, slander and abuse....
Post by Budikka
about you.
Oh fear not.. you have not damaged my reputation,


you have DESTROYED your own.

Not only will i mock you from one end of Usenet to the other..

but even your atheist cronies are cringing at your ineptitude
and clumsy Own Goal! B^]

Priceless!

cadit quaetio! B^)
Post by Budikka
End of story.
Oh you claim your post is a work of fiction! B^D

No one needs to be told! B^]
Post by Budikka
Case closed.
You don't have a case.. you ARE ONE! B^D
Post by Budikka
You can go now.
No I will rub salt in your gaping wounds.. B^)

more of the discussion of the Medieval issue Bukkake the Bullshitter
claims was avoided; ... BY HER!!

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in contrast to the latest
Divine Revelation which was launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith and a renewed new
revelation, because ALL of history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
That would be the ATHEISTS, eh!?!!!! B^D
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era, the choice, if you
want civilisation, is still which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists note the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the 20th
Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
Have you all noticed how EVERY atheist hypocrite ignores this obvious
point!?

They must think that EVERYONE is a bigoted, narrowminded and
SELF-BLINDED as they are! B^D
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical world was said
to be completely un-xian but torturing and burning anyone who believed
such was entirely xian. The church pulled out out all stops and sent a
contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared to the 40,000,000
killed by atheists in the 'modern'(sic) era???
How come athseit hypocrites like Bukakke NEVER have any facts!?

They actually have no idea of the small numbers of witches burnt,
or victims of the Borgia popes.. which they bang on endlessly about,
straining at gnats and swallowing camels!!!
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
How come I provide all basic facts behind these historical issues,
and all atheists do is IGNORE (and snip) the EVIDENCE!?? B^D
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN Christianity
for Dark Deeds in the Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
Why is Bukakke, and all the other atheist hypocrites, so devoid
of moral courage?
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and of each
other') when I say simply 'atheism is historically a Tyranny, in EVERY
case of atheist regimes, and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern Church responsible
for ancient misdeeds, dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from insignificance in
history, to 20th century mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force in the history
of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just responsible for persecuting a handful of Cathars;
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration and
sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry based
on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric world
view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic
solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most
famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary motion,
was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho Brahe's
meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer, even when
persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years the Church apologised! B^D
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution in
the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate system
used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did important
work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First Philosophy
partially concerns theology and he was devoted to reconciling his ideas
with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's theorem
(math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography, helped
develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a calculating
machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french chemist
and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies, anthrax,
chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to the
development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal
Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the Milne
model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the Royal
Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the Lewis
Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research
Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness and the church
was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The church still plays that role today condemning millions in Africa
to die for a doctrine by its teachings on contraception and condoms.
It's mistakes in no way match the deliberate slaughter by
historical atheism, killing over 40,000,000 people
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 – June
20, 1966)
a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics
and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven, proposed the Big Bang
theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe, from a modern
rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it inflicted five
brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised and murdered tens of
millions, before being re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
---------

The Harmony of Science and Religion"

"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."

- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^

Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)

`Abdu'l-Bahá, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.

"Bahá'u'lláh has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha


---------
ABC
2009-04-26 07:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by fasgnadh
Here is my header - referring to the Cathars in France"
" Re: Cathars in France - How religions made history,
and atheists made mass graves"
The Cathars were a religious group attacked and wiped out at the behest
of CATHOLICS. Thus demonstrating once again the viciousness of
organised religions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathar
fasgnadh
2009-04-26 11:14:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
Here is my header - referring to the Cathars in France"
" Re: Cathars in France - How religions made history,
and atheists made mass graves"
Here is Bukakke's header, obliterating all reference to the
histiorical issues, and replacing fact with atheist ad hom,
slander, lies and abuse;
""fasgnadh" - Another Dogmatic, Blind Believer who supports
Hatred and Murder"
And here is the post where *I* condemn ALL hatred and murder,
while Bukakke only condemns the ancient Medieval atrocities
and defends the far greater Atheist ones; B^]
<begin: my restore of Bukakke snipping and running B^>
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the
1300s and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
1300??? BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAHAHAAA
I love the way Atheist propagandists have to go back to the MEDIEVAL
period to find misdeeds by ancient Christians for which they will
irrationally hold modern Christians responsible! B^D
Clearly I have confronted these medieval Christian abuses head on.
The Cathars were a religious group attacked and wiped
out at the behest of CATHOLICS.
Yes, we have already discussed that, as you can see above.

(Or could, if you didn't snip it and then tell us what we already know!
B^)


Please try and keep up.
Post by ABC
Thus demonstrating once again the viciousness of
Medieval societies in the Dark Ages

The Inquisition was politically motivated.

After centuries of tolerance in the Iberian peninsula, with Jews
Christians and Muslims living together in a fruitful multicultural
melange.. circumstances changed. Frederick and Isabella put pressure
on Jews to convert, or die. It was these converted Jews, who did very
well as New Christians, who became the prime target of the Inquisiton.
Old Christians saw them prospering as a new middle class, and their
jealousy led to them denouncing the converts for continuing to practice
Jewish rituals in secret.

Thousands were tortured and killed.

But of course it's called the Spanish Inquisition, because this was
not typical, even at the time, and certainly not outside that time..
The Dark Ages.
Post by ABC
organised religions.
The Quakers are organised, and they don't have an Inquisition,
ditto for the Bahai.. so your thesis clearly falls.

Interestingly, in contrast to your blanket condemnation of ALL
organised religions, at that time Islam was reknowned for it's
tolerance.. and many Jews fled from Aragon and Castille under
Frederick and Isabellas persecution to Granada, to live under
Muslim protection.

how things change, eh?

Now, Islam is in it's Dark Age, and we see pockets of the
Anti-semitism among Islamo fascists like the Taliban, Al Qaida,
the Saudis and Kangarooted.


But ALL the torture and death under the inquisition pales into
insignificance (measured in THOUSANDS) compared to the later
Atheist holocausts which took over 40,000,000 MILLION victims. 8^o

I condemn all your violence.. the medieval catholics and the Modern
atheists.. at least they have PROGRESSED, atheists have regressed,
from impotent and irrelevant though the entirety of human history,
to vile tyranny in the 20th century, and now back to ineffectual
irrelevance;
Post by ABC
Post by fasgnadh
While Bukakke has snipped ALL of theis historical debate and then LIED
about it!!!
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
Europe was hungry
for fresh air after nearly a millennium stultifying oppression by
the "one true church".
True, and Islam provided it! B^)
<end: my restore of Bukakke snipping and running! B^>
Post by Budikka
The *fact* that you RUN AWAY from the history of the Catholic church
That isn't a fact.
I have replaced the DEBATE which YOU snipped and ran away from!! B^]
Once again you are exposed as a weak, irrational, ranting atheist liar!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHA!
Not only have *I* acknowledged the history of the Church's political
reason for creating the Inquisition, i have elaborated and explained it,
and put it in a larger context! [ Bukakke has snipped and ran! B^]
It certainly stands up well, when compared to EVERY atheist state,
which were 100% totalitarian shitholes.. in living memory!
At least the Church committed most of it's atrocities IN THE DARK AGES
when everyone was ignorant, illiterate and barbaric.. whereas
atheism CREATED those condition.. IN THE 'MODERN'(sic) ERA!! 8^o
When it appears ONLY THE ATHEISTS remained ignorant, illiterate and
barbaric! B^D
Post by Budikka
and deliberately, desperately try to change the subject
YOU changed the subject you rank HYPOCRITE!!!
Before YOU both the subject and the body discussed the Cathars.. B^)
AFTER YOU SNIPPED AND RAN FROM BOTH.. nothing of the historical debate
remaned!
What a pathetic liar and hypocrite you are!
I acknowledged the Church's misdeeds and extended the debate,
putting it in the context of the FAR GREATER Atheist holocaust!
You have abandoned the rational debate and so lack intellectual
integrity and moral courage that you simply substitute LIES,
Post by Budikka
instead of having the moral courage to condemn hatred,
Good point.. unlike myself who condemns BOTH the medieval
Church misdeeds and the Atheist holocaust, why have you
snipped all of the rational debate and refused to condemn either??
8^o
You are caught red-handed, bare face lying and exposed to ridicule!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Post by Budikka
dogma and violence tells
everyone here everything they need to know
That explains your post, your vile slanders, your actions as
an atheist and your cowardice and hypocrisy.
You have abandoned the substantive issues and posted nothing
but lies, hypocrisy, slander and abuse....
Post by Budikka
about you.
Oh fear not.. you have not damaged my reputation,
you have DESTROYED your own.
Not only will i mock you from one end of Usenet to the other..
but even your atheist cronies are cringing at your ineptitude
and clumsy Own Goal! B^]
Priceless!
cadit quaetio! B^)
Post by Budikka
End of story.
Oh you claim your post is a work of fiction! B^D
No one needs to be told! B^]
Post by Budikka
Case closed.
You don't have a case.. you ARE ONE! B^D
Post by Budikka
You can go now.
No I will rub salt in your gaping wounds.. B^)
more of the discussion of the Medieval issue Bukkake the Bullshitter
claims was avoided; ... BY HER!!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAA
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
The problem was Medieval ignorance, it was in contrast to the latest
Divine Revelation which was launching a brilliant Civilisation to take
mankind to the next level.
Of course it was a tussle between an ossified faith and a renewed new
revelation, because ALL of history is shaped by Spiritual Teachings,
there were no Atheist Civilisations at all!
Thanks for pointing that out!
"Those that make NO Mistakes, are those that MADE NOTHING!" B^D
That would be the ATHEISTS, eh!?!!!! B^D
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
And As we have seen from Atheism in the Modern Era, the choice, if you
want civilisation, is still which is the best (most contemporary)
revelation! B^D
The Cathars were heretics like the Gnostics and
Manichians centuries before.
I love it when atheists note the persecution of the religious in the
past, when the greatest persecution of the religious was in the 20th
Century, BY ATHEISTS! 8^o
Have you all noticed how EVERY atheist hypocrite ignores this obvious
point!?
They must think that EVERYONE is a bigoted, narrowminded and
SELF-BLINDED as they are! B^D
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
The duality of the Cathars believing that
God created the spiritual world and Satan the physical world was
said to be completely un-xian but torturing and burning anyone who
believed such was entirely xian. The church pulled out out all stops
and sent a contingent of inquisitors to root out any descent.
So how many died in the Medieval Inquisition, compared to the 40,000,000
killed by atheists in the 'modern'(sic) era???
How come athseit hypocrites like Bukakke NEVER have any facts!?
They actually have no idea of the small numbers of witches burnt,
or victims of the Borgia popes.. which they bang on endlessly about,
straining at gnats and swallowing camels!!!
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
It's measured in the THOUSANDS!
How come I provide all basic facts behind these historical issues,
and all atheists do is IGNORE (and snip) the EVIDENCE!?? B^D
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
What hypocrisy, for modern atheists who are DENIERS of the recent
atheist holocausts, killing millions, to crucify MODERN Christianity
for Dark Deeds in the Medieval age of Ignorance, which are acknowledged
by modern Christians and killed thousands! 8^o
Why is Bukakke, and all the other atheist hypocrites, so devoid
of moral courage?
Post by Budikka
Post by fasgnadh
And these atheist hypocrites then misrepresent MY position as the
Collective Responsibility Atheists preach in regard to Religions
('they are all responsible for the acts of Ancient Times, and of each
other') when I say simply 'atheism is historically a Tyranny, in EVERY
case of atheist regimes, and Modern atheism makes itself COMPLICIT by
refusing to admit it, and becoming atheist Holocaust DENIERS!'
Here's the Atheist position, holding the the modern Church responsible
for ancient misdeeds, dredging up CENTURIES OLD complaints because the
Church has EVOLVED, while Athesim has REGRESSED, (from insignificance in
history, to 20th century mayhem and murder, and back to irrelevance! B^)
The Church or Rome was and still is a retarding force in the history
of developing ideas.
Crap, it is not just responsible for persecuting a handful of Cathars;
The balanced view is that the religion is the ONGOING inspiration and
sustainer of JUDEAO/CHRISTIAN(/ISLAMIC) CIVILISATION!!! B^)
There never was any practical 'Atheist alternative..' Atheism
only produces tyrannies far more violent and repressive than
the handful of religious aberrations in a history of human progress
under evolving Spiritual teachings! B^]
Just a few believers who exceeded the intellectual output of this
ignorant atheist fuckwit and his cronies in alt.atheism;
Sir Francis Bacon - established the scientific method of inquiry
based on experimentation and inductive reasoning.
Nicolaus Copernicus Catholic canon who introduced a heliocentric
world view.
William Turner the "father of English botany"
John Napier Scottish mathematician known for inventing logarithms,
Napier's bones, and being the popularizer of the use of decimals.
Johannes Kepler His model of the cosmos based on nesting Platonic
solids was explicitly driven by religious ideas; his later and most
famous scientific contribution, the Kepler's laws of planetary
motion, was based on empirical data that he obtained from Tycho
Brahe's meticulous astronomical observations,
Galileo Galilei, remained a commited, rational believer, even when
persecuted by a corrupt Church. After 600 years the Church
apologised! B^D
René Descartes one of the key thinkers of the Scientific Revolution
in the Western World. honoured by having the Cartesian coordinate
system used in plane geometry and algebra named after him. He did
important work on invariants and geometry. His Meditations on First
Philosophy partially concerns theology and he was devoted to
reconciling his ideas with the dogmas of Catholic Faith to which he
was loyal.
Blaise Pascal well-known for Pascal's law (physics), Pascal's
theorem (math), and Pascal's Wager (theology).
Nicolas Steno a pioneer in both anatomy and geology
Robert Boyle Scientist and theologian who argued that the study of
science could improve glorification of God.
John Wallis As a mathematician he wrote Arithmetica Infinitorumis,
introduced the term Continued fraction, worked on cryptography,
helped develop calculus, and is further known for the Wallis product.
Gottfried Leibniz A polymath who worked on determinants, a
calculating machine
Isaac Newton (He is regarded as one of the greatest scientists and
mathematicians in history.
Thomas Bayes Bayes' theorem. Fellow of the Royal Society
Firmin Abauzit A physicist and theologian.
Carolus Linnaeus father of modern taxonomy, contributions to ecology.
Leonhard Euler mathematician and physicist,
Maria Gaetana Agnesi mathematician
Isaac Milner Lucasian Professor of Mathematics
Michael Faraday
Charles Babbage
Gregor Mendel "father of modern genetics"
Asa Gray - Gray's Manual remains a pivotal work in botany.
Louis Pasteur Inventor of the pasteurization method, a french
chemist and microbiologist. He also solved the mysteries of rabies,
anthrax, chicken cholera, and silkworm diseases, and contributed to
the development of the first vaccines.
Lord Kelvin Thermodynamics. winner of the Copley Medal and the Royal
Medal,
Pierre Duhem Thermodynamic potentials
Dmitri Egorov mathematician - differential geometry
John Ambrose Flemingthe Right-hand rule and work on vacuum tubes,
Fleming valve. the Hughes Medal.
Max Planck founder of Quantum mechanics (1918 Nobel Prize in Physics
Edward Arthur Milne astrophysicist and mathematician proposed the
Milne model and had a Moon crater named for him. Gold Medal of the
Royal Astronomical Society,
Arthur Compton Nobel Prize in Physics.
Georges Lemaître proposed the Big Bang theory. Roman Catholic priest
Sir Robert Boyd pioneer in British space science
von Weizsäcker nuclear physicist Bethe-Weizsäcker formula.
Charles Hard Townes 1964 Nobel Prize in Physics 1966 wrote The
Convergence of Science and Religion.
Freeman Dyson the Lorentz Medal, the Max Planck Medal, and the
Lewis Thomas Prize.
John T. Houghtonco-chair of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate
Change gold medal from the Royal Astronomical Society.
Micha? Heller mathematical physicist relativistic physics and
Noncommutative geometry.
Eric PriestSolar Magnetohydrodynamics , won the George Ellery Hale Prize
Francis Collins director of the US National Human Genome Research
Institute.
John D. Barrow English cosmologist implications of the Anthropic
principle.
Denis Alexander Director of the Faraday Institute and author of
Rebuilding the Matrix - Science and Faith in the 21st Century.
Christopher IshamTheoretical physicist who developed HPO formalism.
Martin NowakEvolutionary biologist and mathematician best known for
evolutionary dynamics.
And that's just a partial list of Western scientists who were
RATIONAL believers!!!!!! B^D
Explain the historical evidence that religion produces, inspires
and sustains the world's great civilisations and atheism has
never produced a SINGLE ONE!!!! EVERY atheist regime has been a
short lived, bloody disaster, a failed tyranny, an atheist SHITHOLE!!
What do you think the reason for that is!??? B^D
Light a candle to find your way through the darkness and the church
was sure to blow it out.
You have described the Darkness brought by EVERY Atheist regime,
not the history of an evolving human civilisation inspired by
progressive revelation. B^]
Where are the Atheist Lights to match these;
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us
with senses, reason and intellect has intended us to forego their use
and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can obtain by
them. He would not require us to deny sense and reason in physical
matters which are set before our eyes and minds by direct experience or
necessary demonstrations.
- Galileo Galilei 1615.
..science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with
the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling,
however, springs from the sphere of Religion... science without religion
is lame, religion without science is blind.
- Albert Einstein "Ideas and Opinions" 1954
The Greatness of God is something we cannot understand even though we
are aware of it
- Rene Descarte 1596-1650 mathematician and philosopher
The glory and greatness of the Almighty God are marvellously discerned
in all His works and divinely read in the open book of heaven
- Galileo Galilei 1564-1642
I see everywhere the inevitable expression of the infinite in the world
- Louis Pasteur 1822-95
As a blind man has no idea of colours, so have we no idea of the manner
by which the All-Wise God perceives and understands all things.
- Sir Isaac Newton 1642-1727
The scientific picture of the real world around me is very
deficient...Science cannot tell us why music delights us, of why and how
an old song can move us to tears.... Science is reticent too when it is
a question of the great Unity... of which we all somehow form a part, to
which we belong. The most popular name for it in our time is God.
- Erwin Schroedinger 1933 Nobel prize in Physics
"My view of the World" 1918
The church still plays that role today condemning millions in Africa
to die for a doctrine by its teachings on contraception and condoms.
It's mistakes in no way match the deliberate slaughter by
historical atheism, killing over 40,000,000 people
The only good thing to come out
of the church is the exit door.
"Monsignor Georges Henri Joseph Édouard Lemaître (July 17, 1894 –
June 20, 1966)
a Belgian Roman Catholic priest, honorary prelate, professor of physics
and astronomer at the Catholic University of Leuven, proposed the Big Bang
theory of the origin of the Universe"
The modern understanding of the origin of the universe, from a modern
rational Theist! B^]
Atheism produced nothing for MILLENNIA, and then it inflicted five
brutal tyrannies which tortured terrorised and murdered tens of
millions, before being re-assigned to the dustbin of history!
And yet atheists still whine about Medieval Misdeeds!
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAA
Suck it up, you jealous whiners!!!!!
--
---------

The Harmony of Science and Religion"

"Science without religion is lame,
religion without science is blind."

- Albert Einstein, "Science, Philosophy and Religion:
a Symposium", 1941
^^^^^

Science being LED, as usual, by the divinely inspired; ;-)

`Abdu'l-Bahá, in 1912, stated that religion without science
is mere superstition and that science without religion is
crude materialism;

"Religion and science are the two wings upon which a man's intelligence
can soar into the heights, with which the human soul can progress. It s
not possible to fly with one wing alone! Should a man try to fly with
the wing of religion alone he would quickly fall into the quagmire of
superstition, whilst on the other hand, with the wing of science alone
he would also make no progress, but fall into the despairing slough of
materialism."
'Abdu'l-Bahá, Paris Talks 1912
^^^^
(London: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1969), pp. 141-46.

"Bahá'u'lláh has declared that religion must be in
accord with science and reason. If it does not
correspond with scientific principles and the
processes of reason, it is superstition.
For God has endowed us with faculties by which
we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate
reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and
science, faith is impossible; and when faith and
confidence in the divine religion are not manifest
in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.
- Abdul Baha


---------
kangarooistan
2009-04-26 10:16:28 UTC
Permalink
Last night I watched a documentary on the Cathars in France in the 1300s
and the efforts made by the church to eliminate them.
#
Muslim India on ABC and Inquisitions on SBS

2 Great docos at the same time slot
WS
# 7:30

Secret Files Of The Inquisition
Send to a friend
#

: The Tears of Spain - For centuries, the historical records of the
Inquisition have been locked away to become the subject of myth and
legend. In 1998, after years of pressure from historians, scholars and
critics in search of the truth, the Vatican opened some of these
archives for the first time. Tonight's episode looks at how
Christians, Muslims and Jews lived in tolerance for centuries along
the Iberian peninsular. However by 1468 changes were afoot. The young
rulers, Isabella and Ferdinand had proclaimed themselves the Catholic
Monarchs and began an Inquisition. Jews who had converted to
Christianity were accused of secretly sabotaging the Christian faith.
Thousands perished in a ritual called the Act of Faith. (From the UK,
in English) (Documentary Series) (Part 2 of 4) (Rpt) PG CC WS
# 8:30

Dateline
Send to a friend
#

Europe's Last Death Camps - Almost ten years ago the United Nations
housed Roma refugees on toxic land in Kosovo - they ended up with some
of the highest levels of lead poisoning ever recorded, but they're
still there. Also, Mark Davis looks at how the birth of twins in
Madagascar is considered to bring bad luck - so children born as twins
are forcibly separated at birth, with one twin being sent to the north
of the country and the other being held in the south. - Current
affairs analysis program hosted by George Negus. (An SBS Production,
in English) (News) CC WS
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