Discussion:
Australian Halal meat-works , business structures , anti discrimination
(too old to reply)
kangarooistan
2007-08-19 00:05:48 UTC
Permalink
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats

Assume it would need one million dollars , but perhaps it could be
10 times as much more , or 10 times less , just an exercise in "
business structure "we will assume a round figure

The aim is to produce true halal organic { pure } high quality
meats , in particular camel , kangaroo and possibly some lamb goat and
cattle , this side is no problem , meat production is pretty well
understood

The meat would aim be Halal , from paddock to consumers plate ,
with only accredited suppliers of livestock even sales only to
accredited retailers , not supermarkets who also handle non halal
meats often in the same outlet by non Muslims

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY Questions flow from

****It is proposed to employ only Muslims

**** Proposed to only buy / sell to approved customers who would
need to also be " Shareholders " in order to " buy " ,

mainly to raise funds and guarantee the supply chain has a vested
interest in maintaining top quality all the way from paddock to plate

**** Shareholders would get first chance at meat produced and surplus
would be traded to the public / wholesale market if needed

My question is

* What Australian laws may apply

* What is the best way to establish the business ,

* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I assume for the exercise we have 10,000 individuals who put up /
buy a 1% share each , so it would be a " public Company "

BUT would / could it be a " cooperative", I'm not sure

OR a large " partnership " possible ?, is this legally possible to
have 1000 partners , some liability problems here I think , and
management hassles with too many partners seems likely

The aim is to have all workers suppliers and consumers ALL as sort f
equal owners , by them first needing to buy a share and so increase
the possibility of producing a better product

A complex chain of supply from paddock to plate has too many weak
spots to let the entire supply chain down and one case of food
poisoning can close an entire meat works and bankrupt the entire
organisation . Hence I feel a sole trader or limited partnership would
not have enough built in security and would fail if just one worker
failed to obey the " rules " accidentally or deliberately , and
damage the entire operation

It is a very hard job to maintain quality Halal meat , when so many
Christians and Jews take great pleasure in closing you down to please
THEIR GOD

If we are to have a real quality Halal meat supply , it must be
owned and controlled COMPLETELY by Muslims IMHO , from paddock to
plate and every where in between must be responsible for the chain to
be protected and high quality to be maintained , so as to get good
returns from highest quality products , not hamburger mince price and
quality as is often now all we can find / expect , IMHO

I understand the physical side of the farming and meat industry
very well , and small business / sole trader and partnerships are
pretty easy to understand as Iv been self employed most of my life

But I'm not really sure , how public companies and equal opportunity
laws in Australia may affect a business structure , as I'm describing

Yes this is only a question , its far from a " proposal " or a venture
start-up

YES its best to get expert advise when working on a project of this
size

I'm just formulating a " possible " venture and its still too early to
say if its a " goer "

I am just mulling this one over , Need to debug / evolve the
concept

thanks for reading , and come back in a few days if you think of any
useful ideas

kanga
====
Fun Tyme
2007-08-19 00:39:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats
Assume it would need one million dollars , but perhaps it could be
10 times as much more , or 10 times less , just an exercise in "
business structure "we will assume a round figure
The aim is to produce true halal organic { pure } high quality
meats , in particular camel , kangaroo and possibly some lamb goat and
cattle , this side is no problem , meat production is pretty well
understood
The meat would aim be Halal , from paddock to consumers plate ,
with only accredited suppliers of livestock even sales only to
accredited retailers , not supermarkets who also handle non halal
meats often in the same outlet by non Muslims
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY Questions flow from
****It is proposed to employ only Muslims
**** Proposed to only buy / sell to approved customers who would
need to also be " Shareholders " in order to " buy " ,
mainly to raise funds and guarantee the supply chain has a vested
interest in maintaining top quality all the way from paddock to plate
**** Shareholders would get first chance at meat produced and surplus
would be traded to the public / wholesale market if needed
My question is
* What Australian laws may apply
* What is the best way to establish the business ,
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume for the exercise we have 10,000 individuals who put up /
buy a 1% share each , so it would be a " public Company "
BUT would / could it be a " cooperative", I'm not sure
OR a large " partnership " possible ?, is this legally possible to
have 1000 partners , some liability problems here I think , and
management hassles with too many partners seems likely
The aim is to have all workers suppliers and consumers ALL as sort f
equal owners , by them first needing to buy a share and so increase
the possibility of producing a better product
A complex chain of supply from paddock to plate has too many weak
spots to let the entire supply chain down and one case of food
poisoning can close an entire meat works and bankrupt the entire
organisation . Hence I feel a sole trader or limited partnership would
not have enough built in security and would fail if just one worker
failed to obey the " rules " accidentally or deliberately , and
damage the entire operation
It is a very hard job to maintain quality Halal meat , when so many
Christians and Jews take great pleasure in closing you down to please
THEIR GOD
If we are to have a real quality Halal meat supply , it must be
owned and controlled COMPLETELY by Muslims IMHO , from paddock to
plate and every where in between must be responsible for the chain to
be protected and high quality to be maintained , so as to get good
returns from highest quality products , not hamburger mince price and
quality as is often now all we can find / expect , IMHO
I understand the physical side of the farming and meat industry
very well , and small business / sole trader and partnerships are
pretty easy to understand as Iv been self employed most of my life
But I'm not really sure , how public companies and equal opportunity
laws in Australia may affect a business structure , as I'm describing
Yes this is only a question , its far from a " proposal " or a venture
start-up
YES its best to get expert advise when working on a project of this
size
I'm just formulating a " possible " venture and its still too early to
say if its a " goer "
I am just mulling this one over , Need to debug / evolve the
concept
thanks for reading , and come back in a few days if you think of any
useful ideas
kanga
====
What - kanga-roots-his-hand wants a religion-based workforce of
moosies only ?

Tell him he's dreaming.
Synic
2007-08-19 00:55:23 UTC
Permalink
["Followup-To:" header set to aus.politics.]
Post by kangarooistan
My question is
* What Australian laws may apply
Ask a lawyer for details. Aside from the usual OH&S and hygene stuff,
the main issue is stunning animals before slaughter. Apparently there
are some markets where they need to be educated that stunning doesn't
injure the animal in any way before its death.
Post by kangarooistan
* What is the best way to establish the business ,
Depends on the capital to hand, really.
Post by kangarooistan
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
Yep. But probably not especially so.

You wouldn't be expected to hire a Jewish woman to conduct a Muslim
religious rite though.

Best of luck with this business venture. Anything with the potential
to halt the cruel live sheep trade is a venture worth wishing well.
kangarooistan
2007-08-19 01:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Synic
["Followup-To:" header set to aus.politics.]
Post by kangarooistan
My question is
* What Australian laws may apply
Ask a lawyer for details.
Hi Synic

Yes indeed , once a concept is in place , ALWAYS have several lawyers
check it

I'm still in the concept stage mate


Aside from the usual OH&S and hygiene stuff,

yes all basic laws rules and regs would apply , these themselves are
indeed complex , but can be dealt with
Post by Synic
the main issue is stunning animals before slaughter. Apparently there
are some markets where they need to be educated that stunning doesn't
injure the animal in any way before its death.
Halal slaughter permits " stunning "
Post by Synic
Post by kangarooistan
* What is the best way to establish the business ,
Depends on the capital to hand, really.
Yes you are basically , right, a sole trader would be best fr a local
butchers shop , and partnership for a big city

BUT I'm looking at today's business environment and I see a Australia
wide venture run like a franchise for distribution from a central
very large meat-works basically serving the entire "specialist"
Australia Halal meat demand , not just burger and chops , aim at the
top end of the market , that's not catered for art the moment , we
have over a million Muslim visitors a year , some very wealthy / well
connected people , but no really high quality producers serving the
existing and growing demand , as well as a large supply of quality
stock and large supply of quality Muslim workers

Even the funds are available

BUT there is RISK , get it wrong and you could lose ALL your
customers overnight ,and nobody will build an enterprise that is so "
fragile "

It does require very careful business planning , there is
opportunity , but there are " traps " believe me , it must be paddock
to plate , and big enough to do it " right " or not at all
Post by Synic
Post by kangarooistan
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
Yep. But probably not especially so.
You wouldn't be expected to hire a Jewish woman to conduct a Muslim
religious rite though.
I'm not really sure , I think to guarantee 100% Halal , and the top
end users, IMHO , it would be ideal to only employ Muslims as stock-
men and cleaners and drivers , not just , " slaughter-men "

Thankfully , we wold not need to advertise the product to the MASSES ,
the end users would be a small segment of the population, but I can
see a bit of a problem if you rejected a cleaner or driver because
they were not Muslim , and IMHO , this would be necessary , but
illegal ?????
Post by Synic
Best of luck with this business venture.
Its a very big venture , kanga wont likely develop it , but to
explore the potential is the first step, there is an opening , some
day it will happen , the existing meat industry is not going to ever
serve this market as its run by and for Christians and jews, camels,
goats and kangaroos are only going to lessen their returns on beef
and mutton / lamb as well as serve the " opponents "

A Muslim owned and operated meat works from paddock to plate would
be attacked not only as a business opponent , but also on ideological
grounds , possibly on racist grounds as well , I suspect many would
be happy to help it fail , some would see it as their GOD given
responsibility to " help " it fail "

The business structure may ensure everybody in the chain of supply had
a vested interest in its success if they were share holders or
partners

SADLY , one person could close it overnight by sabotage of just one
box of meat contaminated with salmonella

A million dollar enterprise in the meat industry can be very
vulnerable to attack by anybody who wants you out of the industry

Unless you could guarantee 100% control , over the entire chain, from
paddock to plate , it would fail ,

Its all or nothing IMHO and experience , thats why I need to explore
an all muslim workforce and inclusive ownership structures ,



Anything with the potential
Post by Synic
to halt the cruel live sheep trade is a venture worth wishing well.
INDEED , it must be stopped , its OK to transport animals by sea , but
not in the ships they are using , bloody greedy capitalists simply
work on the bottom line , its is very profitable , for a few very well
connected people , its madness on many different levels

kanga
=====
Synic
2007-08-19 02:45:20 UTC
Permalink
["Followup-To:" header set to aus.politics.]
kangarooistan <***@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Post by kangarooistan
Post by Synic
Post by kangarooistan
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
Yep. But probably not especially so.
You wouldn't be expected to hire a Jewish woman to conduct a Muslim
religious rite though.
I'm not really sure , I think to guarantee 100% Halal , and the top
end users, IMHO , it would be ideal to only employ Muslims as stock-
men and cleaners and drivers , not just , " slaughter-men "
I think you might be out of luck there. IIRC, for the Halal category
it's really about the slaughter ritual (performed by the right person
in the right way) and, after that, food handling needs to be of a
particular standard (but needs no ceremonial role).

You'd certainly be able to specify procedures to any non-Muslim staff,
but, I doubt you could deny work to them on the basis of religious
beliefs. Yep, that would be illegal.

There's a caveat on that though. If the business is a religious charity
itself then a lot of those religious discrimination issues go away.
Examples being the Catholic schools.

[...]
Post by kangarooistan
Its a very big venture , kanga wont likely develop it , but to
explore the potential is the first step, there is an opening , some
day it will happen , the existing meat industry is not going to ever
serve this market as its run by and for Christians and jews, camels,
goats and kangaroos are only going to lessen their returns on beef
and mutton / lamb as well as serve the " opponents "
I think you'd be surprised. Definitely the production line would
be smaller than for the mass market, but, there are a lot of
similarities (as far as meat preparation goes) between Halal and
Kosher. Enough differences that they're not compatible, but, they
have the same sorts of things to organise and issues to resolve
as you do.

While the situation in the Middle East is a bit insane, it'd make
sense for the two communities in Australia to network more to solve
common problems here. Practical things like this would be a perfect
cultural bridge. (The more places where Muslims and Jews get along,
the less the loonies can claim one side in the Middle East needs to
be blown away for the other to survive.)

[...]
kangarooistan
2007-08-19 13:19:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Synic
[...]
Post by kangarooistan
Post by Synic
Post by kangarooistan
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
Yep. But probably not especially so.
You wouldn't be expected to hire a Jewish woman to conduct a Muslim
religious rite though.
I'm not really sure , I think to guarantee 100% Halal , and the top
end users, IMHO , it would be ideal to only employ Muslims as stock-
men and cleaners and drivers , not just , " slaughter-men "
I think you might be out of luck there. IIRC, for the Halal category
it's really about the slaughter ritual (performed by the right person
in the right way) and, after that, food handling needs to be of a
particular standard (but needs no ceremonial role).
You'd certainly be able to specify procedures to any non-Muslim staff,
but, I doubt you could deny work to them on the basis of religious
beliefs. Yep, that would be illegal.
Hi again Synic

Yes i think you are right

BUT would you invest a million dollars to produce ' Halal meats " and
then be forced to employ fools like we see in these groups to handle
it down the food chain

The clowns would take great pleasure in destroying a multi million
dollar Muslim business , like they have done every time a Muslim
business starts up , the crazy Christians and Jews take it as the GOD
given duty to destroy it ASAP

That's why 100 ton a week of camel meat and a similar amount of roo
meat is left to rot in the desert

I don't think any Muslim will invest in a meat works that had
homicidal maniacs working for it , HO HO HO , but mate this is the
reality , if it was forced to employ non Muslims it would fail in a
week by sabotage , that the simple facts
Post by Synic
There's a caveat on that though. If the business is a religious charity
itself then a lot of those religious discrimination issues go away.
Examples being the Catholic schools.
Probably not going to be a charity

And it is OK for non Muslims to handle the meat after ritual
slaughter ,

it can be processed by non Muslim , but IMHO , it would in time be
sabotaged by Christians and Jews nutters
Post by Synic
[...]
Post by kangarooistan
Its a very big venture , kanga wont likely develop it , but to
explore the potential is the first step, there is an opening , some
day it will happen , the existing meat industry is not going to ever
serve this market as its run by and for Christians and jews, camels,
goats and kangaroos are only going to lessen their returns on beef
and mutton / lamb as well as serve the " opponents "
I think you'd be surprised. Definitely the production line would
be smaller than for the mass market, but, there are a lot of
similarities (as far as meat preparation goes) between Halal and
Kosher. Enough differences that they're not compatible, but, they
have the same sorts of things to organise and issues to resolve
as you do.
Problem with camels and Kangaroos are NOT kosher

Halal and Kosher beef and lamb are produced on the same chain but with
different slaughtermen , they do share meat works now and much of
the meat flows out to th non Muslim / Jewish consumers , check out the
' Halal Approved " stamps on much of the meat in most butcher shops ,
less so with kosher in my experience its very very rare to see kosher
in Australia , but Halal beef and sheep is everywhere , look in your
butcher shop at the whole carcass , it must be branded , read it you
will be surprised how common it is, many meat works produce Halal so
as to be able to market meat far more widely , but only tell you if
you ask or look for the stamp
Post by Synic
While the situation in the Middle East is a bit insane, it'd make
sense for the two communities in Australia to network more to solve
common problems here. Practical things like this would be a perfect
cultural bridge. (The more places where Muslims and Jews get along,
the less the loonies can claim one side in the Middle East needs to
be blown away for the other to survive.)
[...]
Yes mate , it time the Christians and Jews stopped invading Muslim
countries and killing their babies endlessly since 1914

BUT as the west will slowly bleed to death in unwinnable wars like in
the first crusades , when the Jews and christian taxpayers are bled to
death , peace will return to the middle east AGAIN
Wont be long now that the world can see how bankrupt the USA actually
is , pity the yanks now own / control Australia and will suck it dry
as well as it crashes

kanga
=====
Andy
2007-08-19 03:58:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:49:11 -0700, kangarooistan
Post by kangarooistan
Yes indeed , once a concept is in place , ALWAYS have several lawyers
check it
Being a self confessed ex-convict criminal yourself, you should
already have an army of free legal aid lawyers that know you well
enough to consult with, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Post by kangarooistan
I'm still in the concept stage mate
I your "lala" world dream state more like it.
Post by kangarooistan
Aside from the usual OH&S and hygiene stuff,
Indeed.. and hygiene isn't your strongest point is it kanga? Wouldn't
be terribly sanitary for you to go touching holy meat after you've
dirtied your hands on children's private parts whilst observing your
cults acceptable gratification standards. Or have them covered in dirt
after participating in a good old fashioned stoning of a rape victim
to appease allah.
Post by kangarooistan
Halal slaughter permits " stunning "
Does it also permit clubbing fuckwits like you over the head with,
oh.. say a baseball or cricket bat for example? How about a crow bar?
Post by kangarooistan
BUT I'm looking at today's business environment and I see a Australia
wide venture
Hang on fuckwit.. what about your self proclaimed declaration of
anyone paying taxes being a kid killer?

I understand you have no problems with the fucking and molesting of
children, as per your cults rules of self gratification, but would you
lower yourself yet another step and join all the kid killers in this
country by contributing taxes while making your blessed meats for
muslim cult consumption with your venture?
Post by kangarooistan
Even the funds are available
Seems the white devils taxes are ok when it comes to funding the child
molesting cult ventures that you adore so much, isn't that right ya
rape victim stoning hypocrite?
Post by kangarooistan
BUT there is RISK , get it wrong and you could lose ALL your
customers overnight ,and nobody will build an enterprise that is so "
fragile "
Indeed.. a fellow muslim cult employee might ruin the blessedness of
the meat by sticking his hands into mix after popping out to gratify
himself at the local school yard. Couldn't have that now could you..
what would allah think?
Post by kangarooistan
It does require very careful business planning , there is
opportunity , but there are " traps " believe me , it must be paddock
to plate , and big enough to do it " right " or not at all
Well that tosses an ignorant imbecile like you out of the equation
right there.
Post by kangarooistan
I'm not really sure , I think to guarantee 100% Halal , and the top
end users, IMHO , it would be ideal to only employ Muslims as stock-
men and cleaners and drivers , not just , " slaughter-men "
Too bad Australian law prevents fuckwit enterprises from
discriminating like that dipshit.
Post by kangarooistan
Thankfully , we wold not need to advertise the product to the MASSES ,
the end users would be a small segment of the population, but I can
see a bit of a problem if you rejected a cleaner or driver because
they were not Muslim , and IMHO , this would be necessary , but
illegal ?????
Yep illegal. Just as stoning women to death and molesting children is
also illegal in this country, you ignorant cult and terrorist loving
fuckwit.
Post by kangarooistan
Its a very big venture , kanga wont likely develop it , but to
"kanga won't develop it" Talk about the Captain OBVIOUS statement of
the year. How the fuck could an ignorant dole bludging fuckwit like
you, without a penny to your name apart from what you steal from
honest hard working folk in welfare payments, develop anything even
close to resembling something that requires real WORK ?
Post by kangarooistan
explore the potential is the first step, there is an opening , some
day it will happen , the existing meat industry is not going to ever
serve this market as its run by and for Christians and jews, camels,
goats and kangaroos are only going to lessen their returns on beef
and mutton / lamb as well as serve the " opponents "
Nor should it. Cult loving fuckwits like you are forced to eat what is
put in front of you, just like the complimentary stale bread and water
you enjoyed during the many stays you had in the hole while locked up
for your criminal behavior. That aint gonna change any time soon shit
stain so best you get used to the idea.
Post by kangarooistan
A Muslim owned and operated meat works from paddock to plate would
be attacked not only as a business opponent , but also on ideological
grounds
Don't forget on terrorist grounds..
Post by kangarooistan
, possibly on racist grounds as well , I suspect many would
The muslim cult is a religion, not a race, you ignorant dole bludging
fuckwit.
Post by kangarooistan
be happy to help it fail , some would see it as their GOD given
responsibility to " help " it fail "
God has nothing to do with it ignorant parasite. Happily, Australian
law has a responsibility to make cult style ventures like this, fail
to be allowed to even exist in this country.
Post by kangarooistan
The business structure may ensure everybody in the chain of supply had
a vested interest in its success if they were share holders or
partners
SADLY , one person could close it overnight by sabotage of just one
box of meat contaminated with salmonella
Which wouldn't be hard given the muslim cult preference of male self
gratification by sticking their filthy disgusting hands into
children's pants and molesting them. Just ask your own prophets.
Post by kangarooistan
A million dollar enterprise in the meat industry can be very
vulnerable to attack by anybody who wants you out of the industry
Yep and as that would take in the vast majority of the Australian
population, your fucked up idea is doomed to fail before it makes its
way any further than usenet.
Post by kangarooistan
Unless you could guarantee 100% control , over the entire chain, from
paddock to plate , it would fail ,
Yep, I suggest you crawl over to a more suitable country and try to
get this venture off the ground where child fucking and stoning rape
victims to death isn't frowned upon as much. Either that or top
yourself in protest.. Either should work just as well for you.
Post by kangarooistan
Its all or nothing IMHO and experience , thats why I need to explore
an all muslim workforce and inclusive ownership structures ,
Are you sure you'll have enough time in between visits to school yards
and usenet postings?
Post by kangarooistan
Anything with the potential
Post by Synic
to halt the cruel live sheep trade is a venture worth wishing well.
Yes, protect the sheep but continue stoning women to death and
molesting children. And you wonder why you're considered such a
parasitic fuckwit by the majority of your peers? LMAO!
Post by kangarooistan
INDEED , it must be stopped , its OK to transport animals by sea , but
not in the ships they are using , bloody greedy capitalists simply
work on the bottom line , its is very profitable , for a few very well
connected people , its madness on many different levels
Not even close to the madness of worshiping a cult that condones
stoning rape victims to death and molesting children for self
gratification, as per your muslim cult prophet's ideals.

Hope that helps.
Post by kangarooistan
kanga <- The dole bludging terrorist loving parasite
=====================================
Praetorian
2007-08-19 01:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats
Assume it would need one million dollars , but perhaps it could be
10 times as much more , or 10 times less , just an exercise in "
business structure "we will assume a round figure
The aim is to produce true halal organic { pure } high quality
meats , in particular camel , kangaroo
What a load of pig-shit.

Kangaroo isn't even mentioned in your fairytale koran book. You had to get
an "interpretation" (something banned by your koran book, if I'm not
mistaken).

Fuck off donkey-rooter.
--
"Don't believe everything you think".
Andy
2007-08-19 01:28:12 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 17:05:48 -0700, kangarooistan
Post by kangarooistan
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats
Assume it would need one million dollars , but perhaps it could be
10 times as much more , or 10 times less , just an exercise in "
business structure "we will assume a round figure
The aim is to produce true halal organic { pure } high quality
meats , in particular camel , kangaroo and possibly some lamb goat and
cattle , this side is no problem , meat production is pretty well
understood
The meat would aim be Halal , from paddock to consumers plate ,
with only accredited suppliers of livestock even sales only to
accredited retailers , not supermarkets who also handle non halal
meats often in the same outlet by non Muslims
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY Questions flow from
****It is proposed to employ only Muslims
**** Proposed to only buy / sell to approved customers who would
need to also be " Shareholders " in order to " buy " ,
mainly to raise funds and guarantee the supply chain has a vested
interest in maintaining top quality all the way from paddock to plate
**** Shareholders would get first chance at meat produced and surplus
would be traded to the public / wholesale market if needed
My question is
* What Australian laws may apply
* What is the best way to establish the business ,
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ~remainder of your garbage culled~ ]

LMFAO! A welfare bludging fuckwit like you, with no money apart from
what you steal in dole payments, that wants to have a business that
only employs women stoning and children fucking muslim cult members.
Now THAT is a pisser! hahahaha
Little Johnny Howard
2007-08-19 02:21:09 UTC
Permalink
moslum spam snipped
David Moss
2007-08-19 02:39:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats
Take your pick.
Personally I'd favour an organic borderless organisation structure for a
startup halal operation.

Generally halal is just one operation among many in a traditional
mechanistic hierarchical structure however. You would have to conduct
careful marketing analysis before trying to compete with the existing
enterprises. Most pay only lip service to halal, as do their consumers,
and price is the motivating factor just as it is in other food markets.
--
DM
personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resource
http://sunnybar.dynip.com/politics
kangarooistan
2007-08-19 12:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Moss
Post by kangarooistan
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats
Take your pick.
Personally I'd favour an organic borderless organisation structure for a
startup halal operation.
Generally halal is just one operation among many in a traditional
mechanistic hierarchical structure however. You would have to conduct
careful marketing analysis before trying to compete with the existing
enterprises. Most pay only lip service to halal, as do their consumers,
and price is the motivating factor just as it is in other food markets.
--
DM
personal opinion only
The Australian Politics Resourcehttp://sunnybar.dynip.com/politics
Hi DM

You are pretty much right on on your several observations

My interest stems from / interest in marketing high quality , as
against paddock shot roo and camel meats , and its not at this stage a
very big or attractive market , we need to have a quality product ,
BEFORE we can really assess the potential market

The Halal market is very large , if we produce 100 ton a week ,
every Muslim in the world , would only get one hamburger in a entire
life , if you include non Muslims it means it would take hundreds of
years to serve every body with one roo or camel burger as its likely
many would be interested to " try " a roo or camel meal just once , we
could never ever serve the demand, there is not that much camel or roo
available , its the supply side , that is lacking .

The meat works would need to be of export standard , the world is
now as close as the local market , 100 ton a week is about as much as
Australia could produce in the present layout of the pastoral areas ,
its a tiny percentage of the meat market , the product and the
consumers do exist , the infrastructure to join thetwo does not exist
yet .

What is lacking is the infrastructure to handle 100 ton of high
quality red meat camel and kangaroo from paddock to plate in 100%
Halal approved profitable way

It would cost HEAPS , those with the money were Jews and
Christians , until recently , but this is the basis of my concern ,

We must have a very very very tight grip on quality control , in a
big business we would need many partners in the supply chain from
paddock to plate , and many people in the financial structure to raise
the funds , A producers ' Cooperative " looks interesting , a buyers/
end users "syndicate" , may be another , I'm not good at big
business , had a lot to do with very small / self employment in the
industry , but the big boys like to keep control of the meat
industry , they can and do " take out " almost anybody who challenges
their market , its not easy for anybody starting up , against such a
well established marketing machine , as the existing operators in the
meat industry , who now have the customers we aim at

The present public reaction to kanga and camel are the result of
centuries of poor quality meat and handling , there is no reason camel
or kangaroo meat has less potential than any other red meat , /
paddock shot wild cattle are as unsaleable as paddock shot wild camel
or kangaroo is , There is no reason camels AND kangaroos can not be
farmed and processed and handled as sheep and cattle are

As well as the fact we have vast quantities of high quality cheap
beef / lamb in Australia , that act as a barrier to develop other
red meat marketing infrastructures

The Jews find camels , and probably kangaroos as non kosher , its
likely any meat works handling camels or kangaroo would run into a
barrier / disincentive to even consider the cost of developing the
camel / roo / Halal market as it may bar kosher sales , Halal and
Kosher beef and sheep in the same meatworks create no problem , but
camels would create a problem for jewish / kosher in the same meart
works / fridges etc

Its worth noting that non Muslims would / could / and do ,consume
Halal meats , beef and lamb , its widely available , but loses its
real Halal status once it comes in contact with non halal handling or
other non halal meats in the retail outlets, more often that they
know ,Many Australians are eating Halal slaughtered meats , take a
look for the" Halal Approved " stamp on the sheep or beef in your
butchers shop before they cut it up ,
ITS BRANDED , and easily seen , it loses its Halal status if its not
handled correctly , but it was " Halal Approved " when slaughtered

The live stock and markets and finance seem all in order

What is lacking is business to join the dots

One day it will happen

Hopefully its done right , or it will fail , there are a few traps
for beginners , indeed most people are not interested in camel or
kangaroo , at the moment other red meats are still cheap , but as
demand increases , red meat will get more expensive , and demand for
quality halal will increase until one day there will be a camel and
kangaroo Halal meat-works , in time , it will happen , time to start
planning ahead , and that is all im doing really at the moment , its
not something even I would start unless I could be 100% sure all the
lose ends were in order

kanga
=====
regn.pickford
2007-08-19 03:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by kangarooistan
What would be the best business " structure " for a Halal meat
works in Australia to produce 100% organic Halal meats
Assume it would need one million dollars , but perhaps it could be
10 times as much more , or 10 times less , just an exercise in "
business structure "we will assume a round figure
The aim is to produce true halal organic { pure } high quality
meats , in particular camel , kangaroo and possibly some lamb goat and
cattle , this side is no problem , meat production is pretty well
understood
The meat would aim be Halal , from paddock to consumers plate ,
with only accredited suppliers of livestock even sales only to
accredited retailers , not supermarkets who also handle non halal
meats often in the same outlet by non Muslims
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MY Questions flow from
****It is proposed to employ only Muslims
**** Proposed to only buy / sell to approved customers who would
need to also be " Shareholders " in order to " buy " ,
mainly to raise funds and guarantee the supply chain has a vested
interest in maintaining top quality all the way from paddock to plate
**** Shareholders would get first chance at meat produced and surplus
would be traded to the public / wholesale market if needed
My question is
* What Australian laws may apply
* What is the best way to establish the business ,
* and world anti discrimination or free / fair trade laws apply ???
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume for the exercise we have 10,000 individuals who put up /
buy a 1% share each , so it would be a " public Company "
BUT would / could it be a " cooperative", I'm not sure
OR a large " partnership " possible ?, is this legally possible to
have 1000 partners , some liability problems here I think , and
management hassles with too many partners seems likely
The aim is to have all workers suppliers and consumers ALL as sort f
equal owners , by them first needing to buy a share and so increase
the possibility of producing a better product
A complex chain of supply from paddock to plate has too many weak
spots to let the entire supply chain down and one case of food
poisoning can close an entire meat works and bankrupt the entire
organisation . Hence I feel a sole trader or limited partnership would
not have enough built in security and would fail if just one worker
failed to obey the " rules " accidentally or deliberately , and
damage the entire operation
It is a very hard job to maintain quality Halal meat , when so many
Christians and Jews take great pleasure in closing you down to please
THEIR GOD
If we are to have a real quality Halal meat supply , it must be
owned and controlled COMPLETELY by Muslims IMHO , from paddock to
plate and every where in between must be responsible for the chain to
be protected and high quality to be maintained , so as to get good
returns from highest quality products , not hamburger mince price and
quality as is often now all we can find / expect , IMHO
I understand the physical side of the farming and meat industry
very well , and small business / sole trader and partnerships are
pretty easy to understand as Iv been self employed most of my life
But I'm not really sure , how public companies and equal opportunity
laws in Australia may affect a business structure , as I'm describing
Yes this is only a question , its far from a " proposal " or a venture
start-up
YES its best to get expert advise when working on a project of this
size
I'm just formulating a " possible " venture and its still too early to
say if its a " goer "
I am just mulling this one over , Need to debug / evolve the
concept
thanks for reading , and come back in a few days if you think of any
useful ideas
why reinvent the wheel? There are abattoirs that kill halal.

Roos are feral and only killed as game meat. I think an abattoirs
can get a license to kill camel.

Get your supply contracted, get your market contracted, get
the finance and go and see an abattoirs manager.

Which state, closeness to transport/market, what weight roos
(roos are iffy) and what weight camels are things you
need to consider.

modifications will likely to be made to stunning, knocking box
and stick hole areas to fit out for ritual slaughter.

a million dollars isn't enough, you'll need more
than that.

A million might get you an old knackery and you might be eligable
for export subsidies to export halal dogfood to the ME or Indonesia.
kangarooistan
2007-08-19 14:03:08 UTC
Permalink
Little Johnny Howard
2007-08-20 02:39:24 UTC
Permalink
mooslum spam snipped
Firnando
2007-08-20 12:38:10 UTC
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